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OldManOfTheSea
04-30-2010, 11:53 PM
OK, I finally gotten myself the quote I been waiting for, this is why I not said anything of this because i had nothing that I could say to what everything would be, but also, due to the cost at this time for both the 240 and a all new 40 gal breeder tank, the total cost for both tanks at this time is $14,062.55. $2,311 is the total for the 40 gal breeder tank and $11,751.55 is the total to rebuild the 240 SPS tank. Last something others knew was that I had a heating unit problem, that has been fixed, that and the lost of one of my cats cost me the $3,000 I saved from Jan thru March, I will not have to raise $6,540.00 for a new AC & heating Unit. Im figuring to have for this project before this year ends, $6,000 and also, the stand & canopy for $2,400 is already paid for.

So now on the lighting, you can see if the T5 lights will hold up the end of not having only three 250 w MH on a eight foot long 240 gal tank, how you feel it would hold up? I am also however at this time, accepting donations for a old mans dream, I am really however young at heart. So here it is, now I only need to wait a year or more and the dream will become a reality and by that time, I would had waited from the first thought in planning this, more then 10 years.
================================================== =======
Buddy`s 240 Gallon and 40 Gallon Breeder quote

Ok Buddy, for the 240 gallon reef/eel/fish tank you are looking at:

New stand and canopy ( around 40” inside)-------------- = $2400.00
New sump( 125 gallon aquarium converted) --------------- =$375.00
Pump to skimmer ( provided by Buddy) -----------------------=$0.00
Pump to chiller( external mag drive md40 960 gph) --------- =$119.00
Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph)--- =$460.00
400 lbs. of live rock( cured $6.99 per lbs.) --------------- =$2796.00
MH ballasts ( 3- 250 wt. ballasts by Galaxy)--------------- =$215.00 each
Reef Optix 1 pendant and tempered lens (250wt.-3 times)---=$219.00 each
Metal Halide 250 wt. 14000k (3 bulbs)----------------------=$114.00 each
IceCap T5 4’ strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) -------=$528.90
Cooling fans (6 - 4” fans)--------------------------------- =$332.00
Live sand ( 100 lbs. soft Fiji live sand)--------------------- =$125.00
3” pvc inserts for eels ------------------------------------- =$65.00
Glass inserts( for top of 240) ------------------------------ =$85.00
Filter media(for 125 sump) --------------------------------- =$92.65
Bulkheads and fittings( for 125 gallon sump) ---------------- =$68.00
R.O. booster pump( aquafx adds 50 psi) ------------------- =$156.00
Pvc pipe work( for return lines and to new pumps) ----------- =$45.00
Hang on refugium( AquaFuge Hang-on Refugium) ----------- =$335.00
Labor for all work ---------------------------------------- =$2125.00

We also have as new technology on the market from IceCap a new light unit that incorporates LED lighting. With this new style of light if you get the entire light set( MH, LED’s, and T5’s --- 2 - 4’ units) cost around $2000.00, but the LED strips (4’) cost around $95.00 each. Also, in the past couple of months a new style of ballast has hit the market that enables us to use one ballast instead of three. They are priced a little more than the Galaxy unit, but you save in the long run.


For the 40 gallon breeder you are looking at:

40 gallon aquarium( doesn’t come with overflows)--------- =$110.00
Hang-on overflow ---------------------------------------- =$90.00
Stand -------------------------------------------------- =$195.00
Canopy (has to be custom made) ------------------------ =$585.00
Glass top ------------------------------------------------ =$38.00
T5 light strip( 4 light unit by AquaticLife with LED‘s) ------- =$335.00
Sump ( use one of Buddy’s) ------------------------------- =$0.00
Return pump( Mag 9.5 around 900gph) ------------------- =$120.00
Heater (300 wt. unit) ------------------------------------ =$40.00
Drain and return lines------------------------------------- =$38.00
Skimmer( use one of Buddy’s) ------------------------------ =$0.00
UV Sterilizer(lifeguard ultraviolet 40 wt.) ------------------ =$225.00
Labor for 40 gallon retrofit -------------------------------- =$535.00


I hope this helps you in calculating your costs. The prices that I gave you also don’t include any structural work we might need to do to shore up the floors, that would be extra. Also, the labor rate quoted above is only for the work mentioned above.

James Mirgoli
President
HydroConcepts, Inc.

================================================== =====

Any thoughts would be taking serious, after all, were talking some serious money here, LOL

Buddy

DBM Reef
05-01-2010, 02:53 AM
This is a small part of it but these would be cheaper for your ballasts and
give you the option to do 400's or 250's with a flip of a switch . Plus the shipping would be free if you got even just your ballasts for your mh's
here



http://www.marinedepot.com/Lumatek_400W_120_240V_Dimmable_Multi_Wattage_(250W _400W)_Ballast_400_Watt_Metal_Halide_Ballasts-Lumatek-LK1235-FILTACBAMHFH-vi.html

Myteemouse
05-01-2010, 09:25 AM
Cooling fans (6 - 4” fans)--------------------------------- =$332.00 WHAT?? too much $$$



UV Sterilizer(lifeguard ultraviolet 40 wt.) ------------------ =$225.00
don't need it

400 lbs. of live rock( cured $6.99 per lbs.) --------------- =$2796.00
buy dry dead Marco rocks and cure your self for less than half the price
better this way so no unwanted hitchikers

Reef Optix 1 pendant and tempered lens (250wt.-3 times)---=$219.00 each
lumen brights are only 120 each


3” pvc inserts for eels ------------------------------------- =$65.00
your kidding me right??
Go to Home depot and buy a chunk of 3" pvc and toss it in the tank

New stand and canopy ( around 40” inside)-------------- = $2400.00
a local can make you a nice one for less than half the price :)

mfinn
05-01-2010, 09:44 AM
If that is a stores itemized list, I believe you could do a better job of getting some of the stuff yourself, just by doing a little seaching, checking prices, etc.
You are getting hosed.

Herefishyfishy
05-01-2010, 09:47 AM
Once sentence says it all:

You are getting hosed

DolphinLVR
05-01-2010, 09:50 AM
If that is a stores itemized list, I believe you could do a better job of getting some of the stuff yourself, just by doing a little seaching, checking prices, etc.
You are getting hosed.

+1 Finn

Do lots of reasearch on the items you want, you can definately do bett. Also you can save alot of money by doing the stand and canopy yourself. There is a wealth of info out there in regards to making your own stand and canopy.

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 09:57 AM
These items i will list back to James that I will buy them and have them ship to my house for im just these items a lone, I will save I think better then $1,000. I need help finding other things listed in the quote, mainly dry goods. I will as well when the time look up each item that James listed.

These I will order myself for the total cost is over $14K and still there will be supports to be in place, extra supports.

But mainly as well I would like to know with the exact MH with T5 lights, will it be more then what I will need for the SPS corals that will demand the highest in lighting quality?

MH ballasts ( 3- 250 wt. ballasts by Galaxy)------------- =$215.00 each
Reef Optix 1 pendant and tempered lens (250wt.-3 times)-=$219.00 each
Hang on refugium( AquaFuge Hang-on Refugium) ---------- =$335.00

Later when im the time, I will check out your suggestions and Thanks again :)

Thanks Buddy

DolphinLVR
05-01-2010, 10:06 AM
With doing a 240, why would you want to use a HOB refugium? Are you going to have a Sump? Tell us more about your 240 like is it already drilled? What equipment do you already have?

slim_jim989
05-01-2010, 10:31 AM
The quote calls for a 125 to be converted to a sump. Why the need for a HOB refuge, when you have a 5' sump and you can find a 125 for way cheaper on Craiglist, or from someone selling on here.
+1 on the Macro rock thats what im using and its the best.
Dont get the glass lids that will not be good during the summer, it will be like an oven, and also it doesnt allow gases to exscape.
If your going with a canopy why would you waste your time and money with a pendant, go with a retro kit and it will save you lots of money.
And i would do alot of research as that quote is boguss. look into your local forum and look for the deals.

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 10:41 AM
James says that the flow rate will be too strong and I told him I believe it still can be done, he thought different other wise.


Buddy

mfinn
05-01-2010, 10:47 AM
You don't want a high flow through the sump.
Get a slower flow pump, use part of the sump as a refugium, and get powerheads or whatever for flow in the tank.

mfinn
05-01-2010, 11:26 AM
I am also however at this time, accepting donations for a old mans dream,


Buddy



Just doing some quick calculations and a few google seaches, I figure I could trim several thousand off that total figure.
All you have to do is a little reseach on your part, maybe a little diy on your part.
hows that for a donation?:rolleyes:




If this is really a quote from a store near you, go somewhere else and see what they say.

NaTe R
05-01-2010, 12:09 PM
+1 what finn said here

Also for a 240gal tank i figure it is 30" deep just a hunch, I would recommend 400w MH lights for that and T12 vhos.

i feel like 250w mh lights would really limit your sweet spots for some "high light required" corals and lack of light in most cases are going to make your corals not the color you are looking for and have seen. I think you would regret it

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 12:58 PM
OK, the whole problem here for me in this hobby is that im disabled and im no longer able to do what I want to setup anymore, so I am with no other choice but to count on other people. I mean, I can do my water changes and so on, and being of the height the tank will be, I will have a great amount of difficulties when it comes time for buying and the placement of the corals.

I called James a short while ago and left him a message that I needed to talk to him on the equipment and I let him know that there is no problem, for as well early on, he said that he wanted to save me some money, so here is his chance.

The tank is a standard 240 8x2x2' for if the tank was 30" tall, then yes, I would need 400w MH.

Later when im the time, I will look for links for all the dry goods listed and it might help some if my search not turn up a link were some one knows that it would be for less.

Buddy

slim_jim989
05-01-2010, 01:01 PM
now thats a nice footprint of a tank and if you have any questions just feel free to ask were all here to help one another.

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 01:06 PM
That is good Slim :), I did ask one question twice or more and that is if the lights listed in the quote will do for what I want? Also I will have a DSB of 4" or greater. I only need to know that the lights will do for most any SPS coral I would desire to have.

Buddy

mfinn
05-01-2010, 01:16 PM
That is good Slim :), I did ask one question twice or more and that is if the lights listed in the quote will do for what I want? Also I will have a DSB of 4" or greater. I only need to know that the lights will do for most any SPS coral I would desire to have.

Buddy



Your question about the lights is yes, those that you have picked out will be great for anything.
BUT almost $2200 is waay to much for lights.

If I were you I would start looking at some online prices, get some models and prices and then tell your guy, this is what you want to do.

Unless of course you have money to burn.

slim_jim989
05-01-2010, 01:30 PM
or go with a retro kit, it will save you lots of money and it will be better in the long run.

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 01:31 PM
I just email James about the cost, that im no issues about his selections on the equipment that I will order the exact equipment he listed and save at the end of it all more then $3-$4K, im waiting for is answer, and I reminded him that he wanted to save me some money on this. I will be looking for everything that I can buy myself and get it for less, for it would however cut down on the wait by months.

Buddy

NaTe R
05-01-2010, 01:34 PM
I will be looking for everything that I can buy myself and get it for less, for it would however cut down on the wait by months.


I agree if you can save some cash you may not have to wait so long to get going, how exciting.

jrgilles
05-01-2010, 01:42 PM
I just email James about the cost, that im no issues about his selections on the equipment that I will order the exact equipment he listed and save at the end of it all more then $3-$4K, im waiting for is answer, and I reminded him that he wanted to save me some money on this. I will be looking for everything that I can buy myself and get it for less, for it would however cut down on the wait by months.

Buddy

I agree. He should easily be able to cut 3-4k off of the price. Some of his prices seem that he is way over inflating.

TotalVapor
05-01-2010, 01:52 PM
I agree, some are in line some are padded. I would do some shopping around before going further. I would also review the specs of the entire set up.

If this is a local store I am sure they will be willing to work with you. Especially since you will be a returning customer and they will be making their money off the support of the tank. Also with a local store you have a place to take your stuff back IF there is an issue with it.

If this is someone online I would continue to look online for better pricing for each of the items on your list that other places may stock. Of course I am not talking about the stand and canopy that is most likely made to order.

+1 more for finn you do not want to have high flow through your sump. If you have an in-sump skimmer you would want to allow the skimmer the proper amount of time to work with your water. Consult your skimmer manufacture on flow rates.

nomercymike
05-01-2010, 03:45 PM
I think we all need to take a road trip and help this fellow reefer out. It would be one heck of a road trip with all of us crazies. I think doing a bit more research would help you out the most. Check craigslist daily. If you see something on craigslist and are unsure, post it here and we can give our 2 cents. Keep us all posted.

jrgilles
05-01-2010, 03:50 PM
for 240 galllons, whats the depth? Are 2 X250W MH and 8 T5's enough? I would think you would want more, as 2 X 250W MH seems good on my 75 gallon, which is a third of the size. Should they be upgraded to 400 W bulbs?

Never build anthing that big, so not exactly sure. I guess its all about water depth. Make sure the reflectors are good.

mfinn
05-01-2010, 03:53 PM
for 240 galllons, whats the depth? Are 2 X250W MH and 8 T5's enough? I would think you would want more, as 2 X 250W MH seems good on my 75 gallon, which is a third of the size. Should they be upgraded to 400 W bulbs?

Never build anthing that big, so not exactly sure. I guess its all about water depth. Make sure the reflectors are good.



he said it's a 8x2x2 and plans on 3x250 watt mh plus T5

myself I'd go 4x250 watt

jrgilles
05-01-2010, 03:58 PM
he said it's a 8x2x2 and plans on 3x250 watt mh plus T5

myself I'd go 4x250 watt

I agree, seems like you'd want 4 bulbs for 8' of tank

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 05:40 PM
The return pump listed will split into two return lines so the flow rate shouldn't be all that strong and as well, one other item that not on the list, pumps for the tank water currents.

James, his the man who will build this tank up again for me, also he is short of a private worker just for himself, he does I know have a few men working for him and the only two I seen know nothing at all.

finn, I wanted 4x250w MH, James is thinking about the over heating issues and I tell him that what is the problem with it? I have a 1/2 HP chiller and a s*** load of fans will be in place as well and I want to also look for those clip on fans for the sump.

jrgilles, I agree with you, but take a good look again at what the lighting will be, he list both the MH and T5.

Buddy

mfinn
05-01-2010, 06:09 PM
If you have a 1/2 hp chiller there is no reason you cannot run 4x250 watt, plus any other actinic lighting ( I think you should consider VHO )


If your return pump is pumping 2850gph, that is still going through the sump.
You really only need 750 to 1200 gph on a 240 gallon tank. Comes out to 3X to 5x tank volume.

OldManOfTheSea
05-01-2010, 08:37 PM
finn, your telling me? I been telling James the very same thing that this chiller is powerful and early on, he wanted to run the chiller with a pump with 400 gph and I told him this chiller requires a greater flow rate, that if its less then 750 gph, it will shut itself down. But do look over the quote his giving for the lights with the combination with T5 lighting, one other believe it will do well for any SPS coral I would like to have.

Buddy

mfinn
05-01-2010, 08:59 PM
IceCap T5 4’ strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) -------=$528.90



This isn't for just actinic is it?

seems another area that's a bit much.





Plus another thing I'm hearing is this guy, James, is telling you what you will get.
I would want it the other way around.

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 12:01 AM
James knows that I need him more then the other way around, but i told him i will never kiss his a** for anything on this, im paying for the same tank all over again because one other couldnt do the right thing as well. It seems to me being with a disability, others take it too their advantage. Nut im not worry about that for if he was to called it quits, i would buy the dry goods and top of the line equipment should be for a price like more then $14K and in some of the T5 there suppose to be some actinic as well, but im no expert to the fancy lighting conditions, it was far easier when I did soft corals and others, this will be the first for me with a SPS system, and even waiting now more then 10 years, I am still determine to do this even if it does take me another year. And i wanted 4x250 w MH and not 3, with a chiller like the 1/2 HP i bought used, and later I will buy a new one for backup.


So you and others with the lighting and equipment knowledge, please list your highest recommendations and i will present them to James that those are far better then his suggestions, this as well is also another reason i wanted other marine hobbyists to see it for i was sure that if anything wasnt as good as it should been, I would most certainly hear of it. And i not care if James takes to the offensive again, it would only show me that his no expert but does have a limited amount of knowledge in what he does.

Buddy

The return pump will split into two return pvc lines, this should cut the flow rate tremendously.

iroll253
05-02-2010, 01:28 AM
For the lighting i would do 4x 250's and for actinic supplement if you going with t5's i'd say cut it in half to at least 2x4ft t5's left to right and front to back making 8 total instead 16 even a total of 4 4ft t5' would work with the 4x metal halide 250's. For the lighting you could go to basically any websites retrofit section and get what you want for half of what your spending.

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 08:05 AM
Does anybody second it and third and so on on what iroll253 is saying?


For the lighting i would do 4x 250's and for actinic supplement if you going with t5's i'd say cut it in half to at least 2x4ft t5's left to right and front to back making 8 total instead 16 even a total of 4 4ft t5' would work with the 4x metal halide 250's. For the lighting you could go to basically any websites retrofit section and get what you want for half of what your spending.

mfinn
05-02-2010, 08:52 AM
Yes.

but I like VHO actinic better, but I agree.
You really don't need all those T5 bulbs and you would be better off with 4x250 watt mh.

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 09:10 AM
There are so many items to choose from and what James pick out in the three that others shown that I can get it for much less, I am becoming aware that his not as honest as he allows me to believe he is for I did tell him that I wanted the best I can get here and when i looked at the prices of the equipment he listed, due to the cost he listed that they must been top of the line equipment. I mean if he was to get those items he would normally charge to me just a bit higher to make a little profit on ordering them, but his prices on the three items that I said I would save as much as a $1,000 a lone in those if I buy them myself. but now im at a point with James that all of his selections are cheaper products and his charging me top dollar for them.

I can see almost how this is going to go, for how do I tell him his choices are cheaper products, not what I wanted and his charging me just about double the price without hurting his expert appearances? For im getting the idea he first talk with me was nothing but a all come on fairytale like so many often do in trying to make themselves a killing to make money off from that person. As well, I guess i can never give my trust to those who only make money in what they sell another for here you guys and gals do not make money off from me, so who would I trust more then the other?

This body of mine has been cursed with a disability and other certain medical problems that would take me a good while to best explain them for one is mostly all due from the Vietnam War and I first was when a younger man in the Korean War but my years in the military were cut short due to extreme close motor rounds in which also cursed some type of small medal peices to enter my skull and lost of some hair due to the explosion being so close. it caused me what the military doctors called it a minor condition of shell shock in which severe cases are better called as "post traumatic stress disorder". For my conditions with this all these years had become much worst in age, i often like when trying to type, forget what im trying to type and its a battle to regain my thoughts in which makes it tough for me to how better to explain myself in what im asking most of the time. At the end of my military life, I was giving a honorable discharge from the marines, I was of the rank as a Second Lieutenant.

Now away from what life i had, if James is to leave me after what im to tell him, fine by me for I do have another choice who to get for this, but I will talk to those at this other lfs and tell them i will buy the dry goods myself and have everything they will need except for pvc and such. With those here and a few other forums were I am also looking for just those certain few who i want to hear more from in what is best, top of the line equipment to get.
So you know something of my disability in which I was explaining about, this short message had taking me an hour to type.

Fiin, lord knows i planned from the begining to have 4x 250w MH and James changes it due to his own understanding and im going to have a strong chiller and even that I bought it used, I will later as well buy a new one for backup. The company for this chiller advises to drain the water from the chiller, i had the guy i bought it from to fill it with tank water and seal it tight, but they told me due to its medal elements, its not required to keep water in it, so I will later call someone I know to help me take it outside to drain it and then flush it out with the garden hose.

Buddy

PS. I need to start getting ready for all my three youngest grandchildren are to have their first holy communion today, I bought all new clothes to wear today for them. Also in another forum I finally am hearing from one other certain person, his under the name as argi.

mfinn
05-02-2010, 09:45 AM
OldManOfTheSea,
here is my opinion on this whole thing.

You seem to have a lfs/person who is going to sell you a setup the way he wants and only his way. He is going to sell you equipment at a price that is going to make him some money plus he is going to charge you more for doing all this.
It doesn't sound like he is willing to listen to you at all.
My suggestion is to tell James he is fired, unless he is willing to shave some serious cash off the top of each piece of equipment and do what YOU want.
I would find someone else that is willing to listen to your wants and needs and then be willing to do it.

roscoe
05-02-2010, 09:46 AM
OP you have been getting jacked and ripped off by whom ever you have been working with for the last few years!! I've seen your threads you have posted in the past and feel real bad for you. You have been working on these system for years now and the person you have helping you is dragging along the process to milk as much from the cash cow he can. Oh yeah a simple 40b set up that cost $2,311 is rediculous!!! A 40b with all the bells and whistle wont' even come close to that price!!

Those prices he gave you are at least 30% more than where you can get it any where else. If I was you if you. Buy all the equipment yourself. You will save yourself a whole lot of money and then just pay him or someone else which would be best for the labor to install everything.

trido
05-02-2010, 11:15 AM
OP you have been getting jacked and ripped off by whom ever you have been working with for the last few years!! I've seen your threads you have posted in the past and feel real bad for you. You have been working on these system for years now and the person you have helping you is dragging along the process to milk as much from the cash cow he can. Oh yeah a simple 40b set up that cost $2,311 is rediculous!!! A 40b with all the bells and whistle wont' even come close to that price!!

Those prices he gave you are at least 30% more than where you can get it any where else. If I was you if you. Buy all the equipment yourself. You will save yourself a whole lot of money and then just pay him or someone else which would be best for the labor to install everything.



Well said,

Ive been watching theses threads as well, for over three years and have tried to help. Its painful to see. Ive had three complete systems set up, grown in and torn down in the same time these professionals have been working for you.

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 02:59 PM
fiin, I not mind spend big bucks on high quality equipment, but so far in the three I listed here early on that I would save somewhere near $1,000 and there are so many other equipment to check out, im almost afraid to see how much more he is willing to squeeze me dry. I want to get together equipment equal in size to the MH reflectors and so and buy them myself and if they cost what he listed his ideas with, that I can deal with, I want top of the line equipment. I will in no way agree what he wants to do and take more then double the cost he would get himself.

Jacked and ripped off would be correct, but this is also the reason why I post his quote in a few forums, for when I first look at it, it would sound like im getting totally the best, that is BS if you all excuse my expression. For I figured that what I don`t see, others here will see for me.

Im not afraid to spend for what I want here, and it matters not how long it will take, but it will however be less costly to me if I was to buy what a large group of marine specialist in a number of different forum links, that all or most agree, it will be what I would want, I think that this would be the only way.

trido, I really began questioning James professionalism at the start when he first suggested two internal pumps and his feelings were hurt by my turning it down, I certainly knew that I didn`t want those.

I thank you fellas :) Buddy

jrgilles
05-02-2010, 03:18 PM
hey buddy, feel bad these guys are taking your for a ride. Seems very uncool. I wish I was in your area so I could help you out.

I agree with what has been posted here. Order as many pieces yourself, and get good quality stuff. There are plenty of people online who can help direct you if you don't have questions.

Once you have the bulk of the equipment, you can pay someone to finish it off by buying anything you missed and hooking it all up.

Seems like you could just take that quote and refill it out with the equip you want without the huge markup.

Too bad the guys you are working with are being like this.

Do you have a local reef forum where you can get someone on the job that isn't out to screw you?

Best of luck with this all. Its going to be awesome once you get it all going. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods I might have to stop by and check it out

rob

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 03:37 PM
I posted some quotes from you fellas to Keith so he could get a better idea as well in what is going on here and it will be a while before I get a reply back from him, but he is just another who opinion I trust.

jrgilles, you and the others here are helping me out, I can always get someone else to do this tank for me if James feeling are hurt again, in which im sure they will be, LOL And besides, it is a very long drive from Seattle, WA :) But you are helping now, and still the dream will live on, If James dumps me which he had this chance a while ago before i gotten his quote, and I some how wish that he did drop me.

Im with my grandchildren right now, I will check the qutoes james giving me and go from there, and if you fellas weren`t so ugly I would kiss you all, :D

THANKS :) Buddy

OldManOfTheSea
05-02-2010, 10:30 PM
The name for argi is keith, im sure many of you know of him, but I feel if im to do this, I would also be needing him, this is the message I posted for him in trying to ask him for his help. For he said when you go to lfs, they charge much more, but james is with no store, he works out from his home. Now the message I post foir Keith.
__________________________________________________ ________

Yes Keith, if I gone to a lfs they cost more, but this guy is not in any store you can go too, he works out from his home. And yes, OK make a few extra dollars, but the item like the HOB refugium his cost is $335 and I fond the link its at and if its the largest one, the cost is $165, he plans to make $170 on that a lone. When I seen the cost to each item I figured that I was going to get top of the line equipment, not taking for a ride for yes, i wouldn`t bother with this and gone for it if he was only trying to earn a few extra dollars by charging $25 more for this or $35 for that. I mean, lord knows what else his going over kill with.


Im trying to run a search on each item listed, I found a link for the return pump for the 240( sweetwater high efficiency 2850 gph)---- =$460.00 I think that its the first one at that link it cost under $300 not unless im making a mistake on my ID. Three links I sent to you in private message.


Keith, you have to admit that working out from ones house and he is charging me $2125.00 for his labor and many say that is too much, but I no issue with that, its in the open and I can identify his asking for more then most, but the cost for the lighting is another thing for the three MH bulbs, is asking $115 each and they can be bought for around $70, thats $45 dollars more from each bulb. I get a total cost for lighting at $2172.90 But im concern its not totally top of the line. Cost wise it would say it is, but you will see that the 3 ballast are $129.95 and he is charging me $215 for each and that another $85 dollars each which totals to $255 more.


The Reef Optix 1 pendant is really you can get for $109.99 each and his cost he wants $219.00 each, that is easy to add up, his profit there is 110 each which totals at another $330, and the HOB I already told you about, Aquafuge Hang on Refuge, the large one is only $164.99, his total profit there is is $170. Now with all that Keith, can you see his trying to make a total killing from me?


If im to have some others do these tanks for me, with your help and a number of others, I would buy the dry goods each month I saved the $1,000 for this project, i figure that this year remaining, i will save $6,000 for the tanks equipment, but I honestly need your help with the few others who I known about and can trust all for you and their only reward from this will see that I become successful in gaining the equipment i most desire to have. I have no wish to buy cheap and go through much extra cost for these tanks. And please don`t forget that i already paid one other to do this and he done everything wrong, and his cost was even more.


Please help me each month im ready to spend $1,000 on aquarium equipment that i will need and the new people I will see about rebuilding these tanks will do the work for me and they can charge $2000, it wouldn't bother me then, but not someone who is making money from me from both ends.
Right after I post this, I send you a PM, and Thanks no matter how you judge this :)


Also on the item his over charing way to much, you say it been discontinued, I noticing that he has suggested many items before today and each one has discontinued as well, I would have to say Keith that james isn`t the one for me for i can not trust him :(



Here are links I found when trying to ID the model and cost>

Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph)---- =$460.00
http://www.webbsonline.com/catalog/pumpsext/index.html
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/121/Sweetwater-High-Efficiency-Pumps
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1460/Sweetwater-Centrifugal-Pumps

Galaxy ballasts here for $129.95 ea
http://www.aquacave.com/galaxy-250w-...pply-1186.html

Reef Optix 1 pendant for $109.99 ea
http://www.aquacave.com/reef-optix-1...pply-1140.html

Aquafuge Hang on Refuge, the large one is only $164.99
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.co...=0790182000000
__________________________________________________ ____

I hope with that Keith will see that i really need his help as well for up until September i think, every month i can buy equipment for the 240. And then when Jan 2011 comes around, I can recontinue buying again.

Buddy

jrgilles
05-02-2010, 11:14 PM
Good job on the research. Those increases are crazy. I agree that the labor can be overlooked if he does a good job, but this item to item jack ups of over 100% on some is just crazy. >.<

OldManOfTheSea
05-03-2010, 09:03 PM
The other items I already know about their true cost and amoung them his charging me more then $888.00 and that is from just four of the quotes giving to me, four!


Items I need some help on>

IceCap T5 4’ strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) --------- =$528.90
Live sand ( 100 lbs. soft Fiji live sand)------------------------- =$125.00
3” pvc inserts for eels --------------------------------------- =$65.00
Glass inserts( for top of 240) ---------------------------------- =$85.00
Filter media(for 125 sump) ------------------------------------ =$92.65
Bulkheads and fittings( for 125 gallon sump) -------------------- =$68.00
R.O. booster pump( aquafx adds 50 psi) ----------------------- =$156.00
Pvc pipe work( for return lines and to new pumps) ---------- =$45.00
Return pump to 240( sweetwater hi-efficiency 2850 gph)---- =$460.00
400 lbs. of live rock( cured $6.99 per lbs.) ------------------- =$2796.00 New sump( 125 gallon aquarium converted) ------------------- =$375.00
--------------------------------
Cooling fans (6 - 4” fans)--------------------------- =$332.00
I need to see what kind of cooling fans that will be mounted into the canopy that are worth that much for i know of, or heard of cooling fans that do cost around $60 or so, and their not from radio shack
--------------------------------

What is more strange here, his quote not include a chiller, calcium or phosphate reactors and skimmer and yet he is way up high in cost, but yes, he wants to make a killing, i already touch base with a new lfs, and the owner happens to remember me when he was working for Jeff at fish world, he remembers how wrong Jeff done me. Only one kicker to this, he not work with SPS tanks, and I told him that I only need you to help me put the tanks together and he said his solid booked through the next number of months, I told him that this will take a bit longer for me to get most of the equipment I will need, I only not know how much it will cost right not, but it should be far less costly then James price quote.


That is also the reason why I would like to get exact data on the remaining items and once completed, i will print it out and give James a surprise visit. I also have another new lfs to check up about building this tank later on, but it would prove to be far better to buy the equipment myself with the assistance of a very few in just three different forum links, what one can not think of, the others will.

This was quoted to me: SO yes his cost is higher and you can save a lot by purchasing stuff on your own, but some places will not assist you in the set up if you don't buy the supplies from them. This is going to be up to you to either find a place that is willing to work with you on the prices, find a place that will set up everything for you once you have accumulated all the pieces or just go with the place that has the higher prices and let them set everything up for you.


I will call this one other lfs i know and ask them if they will do this later on, and if its because I will buy the equipment myself, i will then speak to the owners and tell them what im looking to have here and how I not wish to have cheap equipment and as well, equipment out of date or has or will become discontinued. It would be worth the shot to try.

Buddy

fishwishmarge
05-12-2010, 12:17 PM
You need to do WAY more research!!!!! It is worth saving a dime, and in your case, it will be much more than that. I agree that you can get pvc MUCH cheaper and most things on your list. T5s (http://allmypetsupplies.com/c-36-t-5.aspx), even 4 of them you don't have to spend that much either. Same thing with the UV (esp considering its not that important or vital). DO SOME SEARCHING.

OldManOfTheSea
05-15-2010, 01:44 PM
I need to know what you all think about still using the ballast that was highly recommended so highly. Im looking to go with four Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite HQI 250W Fixture at $167.99 each and the question is, do I still go with the two Sunlight Supply Blue Wave 7 250W HQI Dual Metal Halide Ballast , but also i would get an extra two as backup. Im speaking to James that he might complete the work needed for the canopy, even that it wont be for a year at most before I could enjoy it. But the question is all due to the discontinuing product.

I found links to were they charge for two pendants with two bulbs and glass protector with one ballast, but the pendent is under 10" wide and cost a bit more then $650 and i would need to buy two sets running me some $1350 and the one was I believe was recommended, the pendent is some 14.5" wide, much better this is.

I only touched base with James that maybe he would get this cost of the job completed with the canopy as well as with the icecap cooling fans. but also, from james quote on the T5 lighting, being it was suggested with only three 250 w MH and I will have four, what is the thought to you all on this, or would you strongly suggest switching to VHO.

I would need to know exactly which, what and type of bulbs, Thanks

Buddy

OldManOfTheSea
05-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Please Fellas, I need some word before James calls me either Monday or which ever day he will call me about this that I sent him word that I will go back to the idea on having 4x 250 w MH and I not just want to have his word to what the lighting will or should be.

His thoughts to the T5 with three 250 w MH was with IceCap T5 4' strips( 8 sets 4 on the front 4 on back) --------$528.90

Im afraid that I not understand that quote for it sounds to me like a whole lot of T5 lights. Is it it for four sets of four T5 bulbs, two in the front and back?

I honestly need to hear your thoughts on this in what i would want is best to go with the 4x250 watt MH with four Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite HQI 250W Fixture each at $167.99.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Sunlight_Supply_Lumen_Max_Elite_HQI_250W_Fixture_D ouble_Ended_Metal_Halide_Pendants-Sunlight_Supply_Inc-SL1543-FILTFIMHPDDE-vi.html


And the biggest question is, do i still go with this ballast that was highly suggested to me a year ago Sunlight Supply Blue Wave 7 250W HQI Dual Metal Halide Ballast that one can still buy, but has been discontinued.


http://www.marinedepot.com/Sunlight_Supply_Blue_Wave_7_250W_HQI_Dual_Metal_Ha lide_Ballast_250_Watt_Magnetic_Metal_Halide_Ballas ts-Sunlight_Supply_Inc-SL1173-FILTACBAMHTFMB-vi.html


Thanks, Buddy

bigblue141
11-09-2010, 11:01 PM
Shipmate, Buddy, OldManOfTheSea:

My advise to you. Go to the BBB and report this guy. This guy sounds like a scam artist. If he was the real deal he would recommend items to you, not demand that you use them.

Second thing. You have 6 SW tanks and must have a lfs that you trust and do business with. I would take a list of items to the owner or MGR and see what kind of deal s/he can swing for you. I'm sure you could probably pay some of the employees to swing by on their day off for cash to set it up. I don't know if you guys have tank cleaners over there, but a couple of the LFS in the Seattle area will maintain and set up your tanks for a fee.

In a 240 that's 8' long you have plenty of room under your tank.

I would run something small, like a 20 or 30 gallon for a sump, and keep your skimmer, calc reactor, heater, ATO, and whatever else in there. I would then get another large tank and set that up as your fuge.

As far as lighting goes, I like the blue from T12 VHO's better than the blue you get out of T5's. If you go with a canopy, get retro fit stuff. If not aquatic life makes a wicked light set up with really tiny halides in them. They are 150W bulbs that are supposed to be brighter than 250W DE Halides (From what the LFS told me). The hood has built in timers in it.

If you can get items (i.e. pumps, lights, etc for hundreds less than your LFS, I would purchase online.) On a purchase this size, I would think your LFS would cut you quite a large break. If they have Anniversary sales, they may tell you to buy your stand and tank then, as they are often sold at cost or slightly over cost.

I don't think there is a HOB fuge large enough that would benifit you in a 240gallon system.

I would also put some sort of reef keeper or other moniter/timer on your set up as well.

An automatic top off system would also be a must have in my book.

v/r

Ryan

thatguy559
11-09-2010, 11:21 PM
any updates on this??

lvsuckerfish
11-10-2010, 12:34 AM
well buying from a LFS I can see the prices being that high equipment from any LFS is not the cheapest I am not by no means trying to bash any store here or there but calling a spade a spade. mark up on equipment is sometimes outragous I look at things on line then go to a LFS even if I pay Higher I still look at adding shipping. but adding shipping still doesn't add up to uncle sam wanting his cut. As the reason I buy most equipment online live stock well thats a different story but I could see the price of the tank set up being so High. I watched a LFS in las vegas they are now closed another story charge a set up for a tank 10g's for a 125 and thats tank sump stand and canopy with plumbing and deliever. sad thing was it was a 275.00 cheap tank shop drilled and had a local vegas guy build the over flow box stand and canopy was nice and that cost a total of 1g just for the stand and canopy. no no live rock no water no sand lighting or live stock. I was like ouch people have money some people will see you coming a mile away and if you do not know any better thats even worse. research and see what you can do better as for the BBB thats not alot they will do as this is not a complaint more of grand larcney lol if he would of paid for it I know most all of the sponsors on this site would probly beat that price with shipping included that sucks but I know their are alot of reefers in your state I know 3reef has some even thought I stated to a local member in las vegas I will never go back there as she was busted robbing aka (cutting frags of corals people bought in a group buy) people in las vegas site so I let her do her thing and just warned the admin but since noone on the west coast reaaly frequents that site it should not be a big issue. her loss not mine. be honest with people is what I go by and not rob them for good corals and or equipment.

bigblue141
11-10-2010, 03:50 PM
Only reason I brought up the BBB is just so there would be a complaint or warning on file for the next consumer this guys runs into (That is if anyone even checks this guy out at all.)

mfinn
11-10-2010, 08:31 PM
any updates on this??



I think this is the last update available.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55775