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jx4hansen
07-31-2010, 03:26 AM
Hello everyone this is my first post. I have been researching reef tanks for over 3 years and now ready to buy lighting.

I recently got to see the PACIFIC SUN unit at Barrier Reef Aquariums in Renton, Wa. and was very impressed.

I would like to know not only everyone's opinions but would like to get some actual PAR reading for the recommended led lights.

I have a 75 gallon 48x18x20 so I do not have to go all that deep. I plan on having a little of everything in the tank and want a clam.

So far I have my list in this order--

1. Pacific Sun
http://pacificsunusa.com
2. Aqua Illumination
http://www.aquaillumination.com
3. MaxSpect
http://delightings.com/index.cfm?GPID=30
5. Ecoxotic - Panorama
http://www.ecoxotic.com
4. TMC Aqua Ray
http://americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDLights.html


I am for sure going to purchase LED, just not sure which....

Myteemouse
07-31-2010, 09:01 AM
My buddy has a pac sun deal and he's growing SPS if this helps at all.

thatguy559
07-31-2010, 10:46 AM
the ecoxotic was the brand i was looking for. The tech guy told me for a 48"x24"x24" i would need 2 of the 12k fixtures. so thats what im going to start out with then work my way up to maybe 4 eventually. but i would like to know if there are par meter readings on these as well.



edit: i thought it was the cannon led series. http://www.ecoxotic.com/products/modular-led-lighting/cannon-led-pendants.html

gothunder3022
07-31-2010, 11:10 AM
Do some searching on Dr. Sanjay Joshi and the fixture you're interested in, he may have done an evaluation of it. He's done several of the current LED fixtures.

NC2WA
07-31-2010, 11:22 AM
gothunder,

got a link ???

ntswift
07-31-2010, 12:07 PM
here's a link to one of them.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/5/aafeature2

jx4hansen
07-31-2010, 01:08 PM
Wow thanks for the link....Aqua Illumination blows all of those tested away with PAR values but is very focused light.

It definitely pushed the ecoxotic to the bottom of the list.

Technology Lamp & Reflector Power Consumption Peak PPFD Values

Aquaillumination
(12" module) 24 LEDs (16W, 8B) 75W AT 18" Not tested AT 24" 364.9 AT 30" 255

KR-91
(30" module) 288W, 132B LEDs 124W AT 18" 66.8 AT 24" 42.8 AT 30" Not tested

Bluemoon Aquatics
(90W model) 90 LEDs (60W, 30B) 93W AT 18" 68 AT 24" 39.9 AT 30" Not tested

Ecoxotic Panorama
(17.5") 4 modules (32W, 16B) 49W AT 18" 68.2 AT 24" 47.4 AT 30" Not tested

Xtremedave67
07-31-2010, 01:16 PM
sitting on this one for my LED purchase someday

moto826
07-31-2010, 01:18 PM
i have the maxpect and like it every thing looks good

jx4hansen
07-31-2010, 02:17 PM
I found some info posted on another forum for the 120w Pac sun. This is promising as pac sun makes higher power units. So far Pac Sun is first on my list.


Pacific Sun Modular Lamp 120W

$748.87

Pacific Sun Aquarium Modular Lamp
The PS Modular LED lamp has a color temperature about 14.000 or 16.000 Kelvin and a high percentage of the light output is at the blue end of the spectrum. Our lamp was the first LED Lamp to simulate the light conditions of a coral reef and the new lamp with an improved technology gives long-term color stability and results in an ever more realistic looking aquarium.
The corals show their natural colors, and the lighting encourages excellent growth. Our Modular LED lamps helps to transform your aquarium into a perfect reef tank.
Lamp dont need outside power supply, its have built switching mode power supply with above 97% efficiency. Lamp can be placed directly above the tank , its not need heat removal-equipment. Every lamp have built on three extra quit fans with double bearings.
Below are our 120w 16.000K Modular Lamp light test data :
2" depth - 1581 Par
12" depth - 551 Par
24" depth - 249 Par
Parameter: PS Modular
Input voltage 120/230VAC
Power: 120W
LED Qty 119pcs
Color White Cree Led 16.000K or 14.000K
Per watt Lumens 90-100lm (average)
Wavelength: Blue 420nm, Blue 455nm
Power Factor: 0.97
IP: IP50
Working environmental temperature -20 ~ +50degress
Covering area (1M height) 13 Square meter
Equal to MH/HPS light 300-400W
Packing size 45x26x12.3cm
Weight N.W 4.5kg /G.W 5kg
Indoor used only – dont use dripping water or dripping irrigation place to avoid light damage.

jezzeaepi
07-31-2010, 03:48 PM
Has anyone found spectral plots of any LED lighting? Drives me crazy that none of the manufacturers publish them.

Shane and John
07-31-2010, 04:22 PM
A hint with Pac Sun..Make absolutly sure that you buy a master /slave unit only...Do Not...I repeat..Do Not buy 2 independently operated units and try to run them in tandem on one tank..It doesnt work...I bought 2 units and tried to run them together...After countless hrs on the computer with programing and on the phone with pac sun I gave up..I currently am running the 160 watt master slave combo...3 watt cree led's..These are great units.If you decide Pac sun..Research what you want and then buy...Or..I can help you as I have gone through it with them..Pac sun reccomended me the 2 IO UNITS...So i wouldnt Trust their reccomendations at all...Great Units....customer service is ...well...ok.....when they get it right..which sometimes takes a lot....Hope that helps..

I have a 120 gallon tank with mostly lps and chalices..Adam...from post # 2 gave me a few sps to try to grow for an experiment...they have been in my tank for about 2 months..Both have grown about 1/4 of an inch or more and a Super Bright in color...Im not an sps guy but its been fun watching them grow!!

DolphinLVR
07-31-2010, 04:37 PM
A hint with Pac Sun..Make absolutly sure that you buy a master /slave unit only...Do Not...I repeat..Do Not buy 2 independently operated units and try to run them in tandem on one tank..It doesnt work...I bought 2 units and tried to run them together...After countless hrs on the computer with programing and on the phone with pac sun I gave up..I currently am running the 160 watt master slave combo...3 watt cree led's..These are great units.If you decide Pac sun..Research what you want and then buy...Or..I can help you as I have gone through it with them..Pac sun reccomended me the 2 IO UNITS...So i wouldnt Trust their reccomendations at all...Great Units....customer service is ...well...ok.....when they get it right..which sometimes takes a lot....Hope that helps..

I have a 120 gallon tank with mostly lps and chalices..Adam...from post # 2 gave me a few sps to try to grow for an experiment...they have been in my tank for about 2 months..Both have grown about 1/4 of an inch or more and a Super Bright in color...Im not an sps guy but its been fun watching them grow!!

Shane Buddy! Glad you got the lights and are happy with them! I still need to get a light demanding SPS for my tank.

Shane and John
07-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Jeff....you wont be dissapointed...These in my tank are growing like Crazy...Hope your doing well and hope your tank is also
Did you get the new pac sun software?I have not...Im a bit nervous to..lol..After all my issues,and Finally getting it Right...Im scared to mess with it!!

DolphinLVR
07-31-2010, 04:53 PM
Jeff....you wont be dissapointed...These in my tank are growing like Crazy...Hope your doing well and hope your tank is also
Did you get the new pac sun software?I have not...Im a bit nervous to..lol..After all my issues,and Finally getting it Right...Im scared to mess with it!!

No I havent gotten it yet, I will take a look at it and see and I'll let you know

jx4hansen
08-02-2010, 12:13 AM
I know a couple of you have purchased Pacific Sun LED's from Barrier Reef Aquariums....on the group buy
Can you give me any insight into these units?

I see that there is a sale for them on Reef Central

> 1- 160W Master - 1099
> 1- 160W Slave - 899

How do these compare to the prices you guys paid??

I am working on a 75 gallon build which I am buying parts to be able to upgrade to a 120 after that.

dragoneggs
08-02-2010, 12:43 AM
I have a couple of Maxspect 160W on my Elos 160XL tank... I love them. Best price for performance by far!

FreakinReefin
08-02-2010, 01:03 AM
I know a couple of you have purchased Pacific Sun LED's from Barrier Reef Aquariums....on the group buy
Can you give me any insight into these units?

I see that there is a sale for them on Reef Central

> 1- 160W Master - 1099
> 1- 160W Slave - 899

How do these compare to the prices you guys paid??

I am working on a 75 gallon build which I am buying parts to be able to upgrade to a 120 after that.

I'm pretty sure that's what I paid for them. They are great lights(160w m/s combo) and I am really excited to track growth. I ended up making the same mistake originally by ordering the two 75w IO units. They are apparently being fixed right now, however I wouldn't garauntee it. Either way you just want to get LEDs with options to adjust...dim and change color. Otherwise they are little more than just a light. Although LED light is really amazing what show in a very colorful tank.

Acro76
08-02-2010, 01:34 AM
LED's are changing so fast it is hard to evaluate them, as new manufacturers and new fixtures are constantly being released.

Here are a few criteria I use to evaluate fixtures through my own research and practical experience with AI, Ecoxotic, Acan Lighting, Reefbrite, Current USA, and others.

1. Aluminum heat sink - Both size and design play a huge role in your LED's lasting 3 months or 12 years. Fans can also help, the nicer units have temperature controlled fans. Yeah you can save a bundle making your own, but if you don't design it right, your LED's will fry! Part of the price of an LED fixture is warranty, reputation (do they take care of customers?), and design.

2. Lens design - LED's can be like a laser beam if not properly focused into the tank, leading to bleached and stressed corals. 60 degree or higher optics can really help spread the light from a beam to a useful reef aquarium light.

3. CREE LED's - Cree has been at the forefront of LED design and efficiency. A cheaper light may not have these state of the art LEDs. But beware, high demand for the newest LED's may push back production times and make you wait weeks or months for your fixture.

4. PAR/Lumens - PAR is often used to evaluate fixtures, but it is not quite as important as you probably think it is! Very low PAR LED fixtures have burned up many a hot coral, so there is clearly some other factors at play. When switching out for LED lighting, go conservative and take your time increasing intensity. Higher PAR is nice for very deep tanks, or for SPS corals, but only if you can control it... Lumens or LUX is not very useful, as it includes light spectra not even utilized by corals.

5. Dimmable or at the very least switchable! - LED's are dimmable from 0% to 100% which makes for some great dawn to dusk effects, cloud effects, lighting storms, and also helps acclimate new corals or ease the transition from other lighting types to LED. Unlike MH or t5 the technology to dim LED is very reliable and really not expensive (google Orbtech LED patent to see why it adds to fixture cost!). At the very least your LED light should be able to have all white LED on or off, and all blue LED on or off with a switch or timer.

6. LED types, options, and upgradability. As LED technology advances so quickly, those of us willing to shell out big bucks are the "early adopters". Will we be screwed when the latest advances hit the market? The combination of a successful form factor (with efficient cooling and lens design) and established brands with good sales are the most likely to be easily upgradeable.

Good luck!

capdippe
08-02-2010, 10:06 AM
I'm not sure, but how do you get the full light spectrum from LED's? I thought that you can't house sps's or deep corals due to that? Am I wrong?

Acro76
08-02-2010, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure, but how do you get the full light spectrum from LED's? I thought that you can't house sps's or deep corals due to that? Am I wrong?

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/07/17/leds-grow-sps-corals/

Scooterman
08-02-2010, 11:24 AM
4. PAR/Lumens - PAR is often used to evaluate fixtures, but it is not quite as important as you probably think it is! Very low PAR LED fixtures have burned up many a hot coral, so there is clearly some other factors at play. When switching out for LED lighting, go conservative and take your time increasing intensity. Higher PAR is nice for very deep tanks, or for SPS corals, but only if you can control it... Lumens or LUX is not very useful, as it includes light spectra not even utilized by corals.

I'd like to know where you get this information?

Murfman
08-02-2010, 01:24 PM
Here are the units I ordered for my 30" deep tank. I have seen two of them and have more than enough PAR for SPS in the upper 1/2.

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-koi/45696-new-299-leds-reefkoi-corals.html

jx4hansen
08-02-2010, 01:29 PM
I still have about three month before I will have all my equipment necessary for my 75 gal tank build up.

Do you think I should go with the sale (160ma/160sl-$1099/$899) now, or wait....being they may be cheaper then????

I have not been watching LED's for about 3 years. I just got back into it because it is now affordable, and I wasn't going to put up MH then have to upgrade.

5 years is a long time to wait...but I can wait a little longer to save $$ on other areas of the build.

Thanks for your help!


I'm pretty sure that's what I paid for them. They are great lights(160w m/s combo) and I am really excited to track growth. I ended up making the same mistake originally by ordering the two 75w IO units. They are apparently being fixed right now, however I wouldn't garauntee it. Either way you just want to get LEDs with options to adjust...dim and change color. Otherwise they are little more than just a light. Although LED light is really amazing what show in a very colorful tank.

dragoneggs
08-02-2010, 02:35 PM
Has anyone found spectral plots of any LED lighting? Drives me crazy that none of the manufacturers publish them.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.maxspectcanada.com/Page%203.html

Acro76
08-02-2010, 08:24 PM
I'd like to know where you get this information?

Just my own humble observations and ramblings... :D Is that credible enough? Probably not, i tend to exaggerate late at night.

thatguy559
08-02-2010, 09:28 PM
http://www.ecoxotic.com/catalog/product/view/id/89/s/cannon-led-pendants/category/3/

anyone got a thoughts on these?

TotalVapor
08-05-2010, 11:52 AM
When I talked to a well respected reefer I was told LED's are nice for smaller tanks but if you have anything over 50 gallons I would wait until they release the 5W bulbs to the public. Right now they are selling all of them to the Military.

He also said they are evolving so fast right now that if you wait the technology will be that much better in a few years and if for some reason it is not better you will have others selling their lights that are only a couple of years old.

So with his advice I will wait a few more years.

Workaholic
08-05-2010, 07:01 PM
When I talked to a well respected reefer I was told LED's are nice for smaller tanks but if you have anything over 50 gallons I would wait until they release the 5W bulbs to the public. Right now they are selling all of them to the Military.

He also said they are evolving so fast right now that if you wait the technology will be that much better in a few years and if for some reason it is not better you will have others selling their lights that are only a couple of years old.

So with his advice I will wait a few more years.

Thats the same conclusion I came too. I'm going to rock my halides for a few years and when the prices of LED's come down a bit then i'll invest in some. heck I may have made my tank upgrade by then anyways.

Tom

FreakinReefin
08-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Thats the same conclusion I came too. I'm going to rock my halides for a few years and when the prices of LED's come down a bit then i'll invest in some. heck I may have made my tank upgrade by then anyways.

Tom

No waaaaaaayyy...I have a 65 gallon with two 160w LED units and I could EASILY use those lights for a MUCH larger tank. However they cost over $2000, so that's kind of a PITA. Plus if you always waited for things to 'evolve' then you would never make a purchase! Everything is always going to evolve(except the family that lives at the end of my road...)

Workaholic
08-05-2010, 08:09 PM
No waaaaaaayyy...I have a 65 gallon with two 160w LED units and I could EASILY use those lights for a MUCH larger tank. However they cost over $2000, so that's kind of a PITA. Plus if you always waited for things to 'evolve' then you would never make a purchase! Everything is always going to evolve(except the family that lives at the end of my road...)

you could use them on a much larger tank yes but would they get the spread you would need for such a large tank.........

Givin the price that you listed and that they are 160w units I'm going to guess and say that you have the pacific sun LED's. The build quality is nice but honestly I dont really like them, i've seen them on display at barrier and did not like the color they produced one bit. Which is another reason that i'm going to wait because so far the only LED fixture I've seen in person (which isn't many unfortunately I will admit) that produces produces the kind of light that I like is the AI units which would not be cheap to setup over the next tank I would like to get.

Tom

Murfman
08-19-2010, 05:59 PM
I have 3 of the evolutions (http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-koi/45696-new-299-leds-reefkoi-corals.html ) over my 8' 300 gallon.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m308/Co_murfman/FTS/IMG_3904Stitch.jpg

moto826
08-19-2010, 07:38 PM
how is it going murfman

jx4hansen
08-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Does anyone else have any par ratings or spectral plots for any of the other LED's out there?

Here is a plot for Pacific Sun's Black Python 160 Watt LED

http://www.aquariumled.eu/shop/bp160par.gif

Height is at 70cm = 27.6 inches
the spread is at 20cm increments = 7.9 inches

I think I read someone state that they did not like the way Pac Sun's looked. The cool thing about them is that you can get what ever temperature you want by using the software/dimming.

Workaholic
08-19-2010, 10:31 PM
Does anyone else have any par ratings or spectral plots for any of the other LED's out there?

Here is a plot for Pacific Sun's Black Python 160 Watt LED

http://www.aquariumled.eu/shop/bp160par.gif

Height is at 70cm = 27.6 inches
the spread is at 20cm increments = 7.9 inches

I think I read someone state that they did not like the way Pac Sun's looked. The cool thing about them is that you can get what ever temperature you want by using the software/dimming.

I said I didn't like them, I understand that you can adjust the color but the "10K" that pacific suns software claims looks very rosey pink to me and personally I find really really ugly. Now there are others that have their units and really like them, its just my personal opinion that I dislike the color they produce as well as a few other features they have.

as for those par readings, could you give more details on the conditions that those were taken? was that in the bottom of a tank? was the fixture 27" above the water surface and then it had tank depth or was that total depth. Because honestly if that was total depth at %100 output those are pretty low numbers.

Tom

jx4hansen
08-19-2010, 11:27 PM
I just posted what the website had.

http://www.aquariumled.eu/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=32

So you answer your question Workaholic, I am not sure.:cry:

I started this post to try to get as much information about LED's on the market to be able to make a decision the best I can.

As I stated before, this is my first thread and trying to help others as well as myself to make a decision on LED's. I have been waiting for 5 years on lights because they (LED) were too expensive. Then they were $4000, now they are $2000 comparatively. I hope to one day in the near future set up my 75 gallon tank....my goal is 4 months.

I hope that others can share their experience so that those watching this thread can make somewhat of an educated decision on LED's.

So please, anyone that has LED's please chime in so we can hear how you are doing.:D

gothunder3022
08-19-2010, 11:46 PM
The way they make those plots is by measuring the PAR values, through air, on a grid with the fixture at a given height. They do this to standardize the comparision between various fixtures. In reality, the numbers go way up in water. I measured a BP 160W over my 24" tall 120g tank, the lowest reading I got was about 250 near the bottom front, I think 400-600 halfway up, and 800 - 1000 near the surface.

jx4hansen
08-20-2010, 01:03 AM
Thanks for the info gothunder!

moto826
08-20-2010, 08:23 AM
i have the maxpect 110 watt and have had it for a wile it is on a 24 cube tank and the color is good but waiting for it to break so i can make it dim then it will be sweet i would give par numbers but i don't have one do any one have one to see what it puts out ? can i rent one?

since i have been using them my zoas are smaller i think its from the brightness but every thing is doing good and they have been over my tank for like a year

TJL
08-20-2010, 10:22 AM
Hey All, I just recieved some great news to share for those that would like to make the switch to LED's without the expense of changing out fixtures. I requested some LED T5's to be produced for me some while ago and finally today was sent pics of the proto-type lamps. These LED T5's go right into any std T5 fixture that has an electronic ballast/driver and use less than half the power of thier fluorescent counterparts while producing more light. At first I'll probably only get 24" & 48" lamps in 12K, 15-18K & 460nm, the prototype lamp just produced is a 12K.
I have already shown a few people a 24" LED T8 10w 8K lamp that I was sent and shows great promise to what the LED T5 lamps should do. I'll keep everyone posted and hope to have a handfull to give out for Beta Testing sometime soon (crossing fingers). I also hope to have in hand some Par 20&30 LED lamps in 460nm and a 15-18K mixed blue & white.

Todd

roscoe
08-20-2010, 11:21 AM
AHHHHHHH man Todd.... Just when I am taking a break from the hobby. I would have loved to test your lighting out. Hopefully by the time I get back into the hobby you will have a full line of of products available.

TJL
08-20-2010, 11:35 AM
Thanks Sarang, Ya hopefully. I'm very much stuck on my decision to just represent the product to a couple major distributors or see if I can put enough coins together to market on my own ?????? For the sake of pricing and logistics my primary importing with either decision will be in general household/commercial lighting LED's (MR16, Par 20 & 30, downlights & 24" & 48" T8) then hopefully be able slip a pallet or two of aquarium lighting into container with them. I'm still working out the contracts with manufacturer.

Todd

roscoe
08-20-2010, 11:39 AM
Well I do want to but some LED lighting in the garage.

TJL
08-20-2010, 12:25 PM
Ya and it wouldn't hurt to have a 40 Breeder under it with lps and zoas... for Mancave decoration... all I'm saying...

Todd

Murfman
08-20-2010, 01:06 PM
how is it going murfman

What up Moto. Friend of mine from HS is a member here, Carmela. She just started her tank last year.

I will see her next Aug, in Albuquerque!:D

Murfman
08-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Here are some PAR readings on the Evolution LED box sold by Reefkoi.

http://nationalcoralregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?1189-Evolution-LED-Lighting&highlight=leds

Workaholic
08-20-2010, 09:50 PM
Thanks for the link, those lights are looking like they are VERY worth the $300ea. If I wasn't about to finish putting together my halides and have all the parts already I'd seriously look into purchasing a pair of those for my 58g.

Tom