View Full Version : Up grading help

12-30-2004, 09:48 AM
Going to up grade from a 75 to a 180or 200 my 75 will stay as a community tank and my 180 will be my predator my ray and my lion. My questions are when I go to a uv unit will I still require 180 pound of live rock I have looked at the other links on wattage of uv also need pump sizes I will only be running the 180 out of the sump and leave my 75 on its own. What size pump uv and sump would you recommend I would like to reduce my live rock to about 100 pounds and put my money into more effective filtration also with uv do you still require a skimmer?

12-30-2004, 11:23 AM
I Can Say Tha You Will Still Need A Skimmer, A Uv Only Kills Freefloating Algae So They Don't Reproduce And Bacteria But A Skimmer Has The Ability To Remove Them From The Water. Reducing Your Rock Is Not A Problem It Is Just Going To Give You More Water Volume To Wash Your Reef With..besides If You Look At Reefs There Is A Vast Ocean Sourrounding Them. I Would Consider To Use Multiable Pumps Rather Than 1 Large One. You Also Have To Keep In Mind What You Plan To Keep In Your Reef.

12-30-2004, 12:02 PM
The sting ray and the lion are the reason for the larger tank. What skimmer would you suggest. Multiple pumps? I thought the water gravity fed into the filter and sump through the skimmer with its own pump then another pump supplied back to the tank my plan is to have the uv in line with my gravity feed with a valve after to slow water movement into the box filter out the bottom into my skimmer pumped over to the other side of the sump then pumped up to the tank. My sump will be split into two halves one with my filter with bio balls active carbon and levels of filter cloth and my skimmer. the other as my return is this a good or bad design?

12-30-2004, 02:28 PM
Question Are You Going To Put Any Coral In The New Larger Tank Or Just Fish Only ?

12-30-2004, 05:00 PM
Just fish the coral will be in the 75 my stingray will just ly on top of the coral and kill it. I Want my 180 to be predator and my 75 to be community. I will also have power heads in the 180 along with my 75 I understand the need for good movement and I am not trying to cheap out on money I just want the knowledge of the people on this site and from what I have read there is allot to make a safe enviroment for my ray and my lion and anything else I may put in any of the 2 tanks I really appreciate the help that you and everyone else is giving.

12-30-2004, 08:06 PM
Sounds like a neat tank. The lion will be an easy one but the ray will need some extra concideration. Ray's are really sloppy and violent eaters. They like to have a sand bottom or CC and then punce on the critter when it hits bottom, makes for quite the mess. I think this should be thought about when talking filtration. UV is a good idea, it will help take care of the paracites and makes a great disinfectorant. For a 180 I would go with about 80 watts and just run about 500gph through them. Look at the rainbow lifeguards, thier a good unit. I would not go with to much rock as the ray will need alot of bottom area, so go decorative at best, dont worry so much about the filtration end. On filtration as a whole with this tank I would say its going to be a manual one, skimmer would be OK but not absolutely required, a good sized wet/dry would be better then a sump. CC on the bootm again for the ray and then Manual syphon cleaning once a weeks. You will end up with some nitrates but the fish can handle them no problem. For the skimmer thier will be way to much crud for it to handle, between to large preds and the CC being wiped out all the time I dont know if you could afford one that would handle all that or even so if it would be worth it.
I would look to ozone also. If used with a controller monitor its a great way to help you with organics.


12-31-2004, 08:33 AM
Thanks Mike just starting to get a little confused a lot of people say that a skimmer is the most important piece of equipment in the tank. Are you saying if I cant afford the biggest one dont use one at all? My ray is in the 75 now and has been for 1 month live sand bottom my levels have stayed very steady. With this upgrade I need to make more room for the ray Blue spotted ribbon tail The sump idea is to get all the hoses and all that out of the tank. Plus my Basement is unfinished so I am going to finish it around the tank a sump idea seems to be a better filtration system do you agree? What amount of live rock would be good to keep my water safe in a 180?

12-31-2004, 10:40 AM
lyfsux a Skimmer is a very important piece of equipment. You have to look at the system as a whole and how you are going to deal with detritus and waste. Being that it is a pred tank with no corals it means that levels of nitrate are more acceptable as the fish can handle them. The two main fish you have are very messy and eat quite a bit. So your main focus is going to be on dealing with their waste. The ray like to bury itself in the sand, it also likes to jump on top of prey on the sand, so you need sand or cc and with him going in their your going to need to clean it, thus the syphoning. With a pred tank WC's are a big thing also to deal with the larger amount of waste. So with water changes, syphoning and a wet/dry style sump you should have things covered. Now you can get a skimmer I just think it wont have the impact because your going to have to do the above. You would be better off in this case to get a decent UV and use Ozone. That make sense or am I explaining it wrong??

Plus my Basement is unfinished so I am going to finish it around the tank a sump idea seems to be a better filtration system do you agree?
A sump doesn't do any filtration, it just adds water volume and gives you a place to put equipment. So for that no problem but I would still go with a wet/dry concept in the sump. this would convert your ammonia to nitrate which the fish can deal with and then your syphoning and wc's will keep those levels down.
On the LR, most folks use it as a filtration source, In a FO pred tank it will have no chance to keep up with the bioload you will be throwing at it, So I would say put in as much as you want but do it for decorative purposes and not for filtration.
Heres the concept. FO pred tanks are high waste producers, So biological filtration will be way overwhelmed and should not be relied on in this case. So not a big emphasis on LR or LS. Also because the preds eat larger and more prey they are messy and pigs, In the case of a ray he is normally a violent eater, messing up the substraight. You can get a skimmer but It will not deal with the amount of waste and detritus that pred tanks produce unless its a very big and effective unit (I am assuming you will be getting more preds and fish once in the new tank) so I would steer you down the ozone and UV route instead for your filtration, couple this with a wet/dry, Wc's and a good syphoning routeen and you should have a great tank.

Just my thoughts


12-31-2004, 11:54 AM
Now that makes a lot of sence to me now So with the uv ozone would that go into a closed loop and what order inlet, uv, ozone pump then back into the tank. Also a ozone with uv all one unit a good idea or would you use 2 seperate units.

12-31-2004, 04:29 PM
Mike- I agree with you right up until you say not to use a skimmer. I would suggest that a UV and Ozone setup would not be more effective than a skimmer, unless it was so big it was dumping ozone in the tank, and the cops kept coming by looking for a grow operation. :)

A pair of big skimmers should be a great starting point, with UV and Ozone added after that point to pickup whatever the skimmers don't get.

I know you are a believer in wet skimming, can you explain why you think it is not worthwhile in this case?



12-31-2004, 07:04 PM
My tank I have now 75 gallon 75 pounds 0f live rock ehiem cannister and a small whisper hang on and have never had my levels spike with my lion and ray then I added a skimmer 150 sea clone and it is not working that hard.

12-31-2004, 08:43 PM
LOL Brent I am a huge fan of skimming and wet skimming at that. I beleive in this case a skimmer would only be complementary. The vast amount of his filtration (keeping the tank clean ) would be done through syphoning and Wc's. The fish he has and the fish he will be getting are big eaters and big poopers. For the Ray he is going to need a substraight, which means he can have strong low flow to get the big poop off the bottom and to a place where the skimmer can get to it. So the skimmer would just get small amounts of it at best. With the use of ozone he will be able to get the vast majority of dissolved organics and ammonias along with the same particulate that the skimmer would get. The syphoning will take care of the larger particulate detritus and waste. WC's will help dillute anything that may not get processed. The UV s purely for Dissinfecting.

All I am doing is offering what I would do if it were me. Adding a skimmer or two big skimmer would not hurt the system what so ever.


01-01-2005, 09:12 AM
Thats great advice and I will probably get 2 skimmers along with the uv all I want is to create a safe enviroment for the fish that I have chosen and the advice I have been given here seems to be water quality and not trying to sell a bunch of stuff I dont need. I will take the advice and make it happen in the new reef Thanks for all your help

01-01-2005, 10:50 AM
Ok I Think Tis On I Must Chime In On . With Volenteering At The Seattle Aquarium For A While. I Had The Opertunity To Deal With Rays,sharks And Other Messt Preditors. You Are On A Good Path, You Need A Uv, A Good Mech Filter, And Lots Of Wet Skimming To Keep Water Peramaters In Shape Not Only Are These Animals Messy Eaters But They Produce Alot Of Waste.
As Far As Aquascaping, A Rock Back Wall With A Few Caves Or Ledges For Lion Fish To Hover By . Small Crush Coral Cause Sand Will Vac Out When Cleaning Sand. Standard Lighting And May Be A Mag Hot For Water Polishing And Carbon Neuteralizing Water. Throw Apuffer In There And You Have A Great Setup.