Starting a Reef tank thoughts and discussion

Ok cool so I like this direction, so lets dig in a little deeper. I think the order of difficulty that Oldsaint says is correct and Dnjan is correct on some of the things required for each. So with that in mind lets explore a bit.

FO or fish only = with a Fo tank you can still build a good base to be able to upgrade your tank to softy tank or sps if you set it up with that in mind. So one should look for the same style equipment you could use down the line, so Protein skimmer, heaters (always twice as much for redundancy) possible use of ozone, UV, carbon and so on. Lighting does not have to be that good, just enough to see the fish good. You still going to have to cycle the tank and watch your nitrogen based levels by testing, but calcium and alk and magnesium are not really required as the demand is low.

SO lets say I start here and have a FO with live rock and sand and its been up for anywhere from 6 months to year. Now I got the ich so whats the next step to get into a reef tank??

Mojo

Now I got the ich so whats the next step to get into a reef tank??

Mike, helluva a pun...I think you meant itch.

Next step to getting into a reef... simple, get rid of the damn fish! Can't say Im liking this crossdresser FO to Reef thing, how you going to get all that copper and impacted sand bed fixed up? Fish are filthy!

No it was a pun Kirk, ice pick up, lol

Sas well thats something we need to talk about then, if someone wants to go down that road what are some of the dos and donts??

Mike

Originally Posted by mojoreef

No it was a pun Kirk, ice pick up, lol

Sas well thats something we need to talk about then, if someone wants to go down that road what are some of the dos and donts??

Mike

sure put me on the spot lol.
HMM? first and foremost would be quarantine and prophylactic treatments, now we have a new fish person that needs to set up for qt and treatment (like that happens how often?) I think its much better to go right to corals, Then add fish not the other way, fish have a pretty bad habit of dying, the selection for a FO probably will not suit a reef, Fo's generally run pretty high trates and with that and reef lighting we quickly have a very disappointed newb.
Reef from the start is a well documented process, starting without fish eliminates a couple of big starter issues and provides time for the beginner to learn water management and what will be appropriate to the tank.
There is nothing wrong with a simple mushroom and zenia tank to start with, this hobby 9 out of 10 times is way too much flash, way too much cash and too often the crash.
So in summation, reef from the start... easily followed instructions. FO/FOWLR to reef... find me a guide lol

mike.

hhahahaha...good one, well at least I was reading your posts.

I would agree with QT fish when getting fish along with proper water management. Unfortunately, water management takes time to understand and to develop and with the introduction of fish it makes this even more crucial to understand it. When I was a newbie close to 15 yrs ago, I started out with fish and didnt touch corals until I had several years under my belt. When I made the leap to corals, I started with easy corals (softie, leathers) then worked up to LPS and finally SPS. But to get to the point I felt comfortable with SPS took almost 10yrs.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

sure put me on the spot lol.
HMM? first and foremost would be quarantine and prophylactic treatments, now we have a new fish person that needs to set up for qt and treatment (like that happens how often?) I think its much better to go right to corals, Then add fish not the other way, fish have a pretty bad habit of dying, the selection for a FO probably will not suit a reef, Fo's generally run pretty high trates and with that and reef lighting we quickly have a very disappointed newb.
Reef from the start is a well documented process, starting without fish eliminates a couple of big starter issues and provides time for the beginner to learn water management and what will be appropriate to the tank.
There is nothing wrong with a simple mushroom and zenia tank to start with, this hobby 9 out of 10 times is way too much flash, way too much cash and too often the crash.
So in summation, reef from the start... easily followed instructions. FO/FOWLR to reef... find me a guide lol

I cant belive I am posting this " I agree with Sas " LOL.

So now I have had fish in my tank for 6 mos. and it is time to add coral!!!! I need to upgrade my lights (possibly) I need to get good test kits for additional water parm. I may need to deal with fish that are not reef safe. Is there anything I can add to my system to keep my water parm in check. Maybe a reactor.

Now is a good time to make adjustments or tweek your system more to your liking. And most importantly do some research on corals

Originally Posted by NC2WA

mike.

hhahahaha...good one, well at least I was reading your posts.

I would agree with QT fish when getting fish along with proper water management. Unfortunately, water management takes time to understand and to develop and with the introduction of fish it makes this even more crucial to understand it. When I was a newbie close to 15 yrs ago, I started out with fish and didnt touch corals until I had several years under my belt. When I made the leap to corals, I started with easy corals (softie, leathers) then worked up to LPS and finally SPS. But to get to the point I felt comfortable with SPS took almost 10yrs.

stick people lol, did you ever convert your fish tank to a reef?

Originally Posted by peppie

I cant believe I am posting this " I agree with Sas " LOL.

few are so kind as you Peppie (I corrected your spelling too) eggs easy over and foot massage right! lol

did you ever convert your fish tank to a reef

if you mean a full reef, no.

I like the fishes too much.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

few are so kind as you Peppie (I corrected your spelling too) eggs easy over and foot massage right! lol

Mojo and I are spell-checkless, Or never proofread, or dont give a crap!!!

Originally Posted by peppie

Mojo and I are spell-checkless, Or never proofread, or dont give a crap!!!

hmm reminds me of the brain surgeon that likes to cut with the other hand for fun lol

There are many ways to skin a cat. I usually start at the tail and work forward but that's another subject.

I don't see much success for a newbie that goes out and buys a 20g tank, some sps and goes for it.
I do see some success with starting at one end of the hobby that is typically easier and working one's self up to the more difficlut levels.

If a reef tank is the goal then just keep that in mind as you're making your choices for fish and equipment. Just because it's a "fish only" system doesn't mean you have to go and buy a miniatus or panther grouper and later mix them with some anthias. Nor do you have to run your NO3 to unacceptable levels.

Ok so to do a bit of a summery. When keeping a reef tank their are alot of things to learn and know about. One has to under stand the various cycles of bacteria as it relates to the Nitrogen cycle. Their is an amount of water chemistry knowledge required so that you can keep good water for the inhabitants. Their is literally a million different types and models of equipment associated with keeping reef tanks. And then you get into the different types of corals and their requirements and their ability to live with each other, and the same applies with fish.

So that all boils down to a huge amount of information for anyone to absorb all at once. So yes it is easy to do some reading and copy a sucessfull reefers setup and jump right in, but the problem is that you dont know the signs, or the way things work to be able to see issues coming prior to them getting out of control. So I think its pretty easy to say that its best to learn amounts about whats happening and while doing that get your feet wet by doing it in a progressive manner.

So what most experenced reefers believe is the natural is to go from FO with LR then to softie/lps style tank and then move towards a sps style tank. Now this isnt what folks have to do (as many will be happy staying at any given level) but its kind of understood.

A Fish Only tank.= Allows you to get your feet wet and while doing so get an understanding of general water testing. A look at water flow and the dealing with the general maintenance required in order to keep your water quality in good condition. It allows you to get in with out having to buy a alot of equipment all at once also. You still have to buy the tank, rock, substraight (if wanted), possibly running a sump, protein skimmer and other equipment folks run. I would also say that it gives you time to add to your knowledge base while your tank cycles through its bacterial cycle and algal cycle and most importantly allows the person to work out the issues, because as what most will tell you is that what reef tank need more then anything is stability, no big swings in PH, temp, alk, cal and so on and so on. Every piece of equipment you add is going to take an amount of time to dial in and I cant tell you how many tanks get killed in this process.

Softie/LPS tank = So when entering this stage one can say that they have kept a FO tank while it goes through its moron cycle, the tank itself is balanced in terms of bacterial population and algal swing. While going through this the person has a good understanding of how bacteria works, how to maintain thier tank in terms of dealing with detritus and waste and have a good handle on keeping their water quality high. They have also worked out the the equipment on the tank and its all in perfect working condition.

So now we move forward. Now when you are going to add corals such as softies and LPS corals their are a few more requirements needed SO lets have at it.


Mojo

My first thought was figure out the right type of flow and what equipment to get to accomplish it.