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Thread: Bactereial Counts: Skimmmers vs No Skimmers and GAC

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    Bactereial Counts: Skimmmers vs No Skimmers and GAC

    I just love it when all he lines connect to the dots. Skimmers get beat up more by Ken.

    Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

    Feature Article: Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration &mdash; Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine



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    MEH... what a load of waffle...
    ummm we dont know how that works, more research is needed, but yeah, carbon dosing(via pellets/vodka/etc) and skimming do remove some nutrients/bacteria, but not others, and it's different in closed systems compared to nature...

    LOL... I wont be turning off/changing my skimmer, biopellets, or GAC regime any time soon...
    Last edited by Skimmy; 03-06-2011 at 11:47 AM.

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    Hey Boomer, thanks for sharing this link. Very interesting/informative and hope someone follows through on which types/strains of bacteria are actually removed by skimming and use of GAC and may be manually replaced/dosed for a healthier reetank. Also very enlightening on the Red Sea Salt mix having a substantially higher bacterial load, after 25+ years using I/O will now look into a change???

    Cheers, Todd

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    Skinny

    You obviously did not understand what you read, as if you know more LOL



    TJL
    What they are saying is the Red Sea is contaminated be it good or bad is unknown.
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    It was unclear to me whether their conclusions tend to favor or disfavor skimmers in reef aquariums. The removed bacteria have a nutrient load, but are they not also the bacteria that are vital to the nitrogen cycle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Skinny
    You obviously did not understand what you read, as if you know more LOL
    your welcome... enjoi teh flawed studi and redsea salt....LOL
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    There was no disfavor at all only what was seen. Neither of them will tell you to remove your skimmer nor will I. Most of it revolves around what skimmers really do vs claims, not they they should be thrown out the window. A big issue in this hobby for years is all the skimmer marketing hype on what they do. In fact, what we have seen in all of Ken's tests is that the Bubble King works well and much better than others. So, skimmer design and operation is an important issue. A big iisue with bacterial counts being low in reef tanks is that they are very low compared to the ocean. The issue is this bad or good thing for reef tanks. Bacteria are a major food source for corals. Freshly made sea water, for example, has a higher count than a reef tank. One thing that has not been looked at yet is what speices of bacteria are they and what is their roll. What ever the case may be many reef tanks run just fine, despite bacterial counts or TOC levels. We are trying to undserdtand why and what it means so we can run systems better. That is everybody's goal I think. We have come a long way in the last 10 years.
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    Yup kinda figure skimmy you where one of those guys, one that has nothing to add just make remarks how flawed something is. So, here is your big chance, fell free to show us how flawed it is and how you can make it so unflawed
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    Boomer - I'm obviously new to this - keeping a nano-sized reef tank. I realize that margins for error are smaller in a small tank, yet I have a "mentor" who has had great success with a BioCube 28 running no skimmer at all. Water changes plus a strict maintenance regimen seem to work well for him.

    Although my Solana 34 came with a stock skimmer - many users relate that model is not very efficient. I hope to emulate my buddy's results without relying on a skimmer.

    As you imply, there doesn't seem to be just one right answer to the question ...

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    Gort there are quite a few reefers that run skimmer less tanks. A couple of Sanjay's tanks not only do not have skimmers but have very little maintenance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Gort there are quite a few reefers that run skimmer less tanks. A couple of Sanjay's tanks not only do not have skimmers but have very little maintenance.
    Thanx, Boomer - I will definitely search out Sanjay's threads.

    Since I've got you on the line - I have a question about mechanical/chemical filtration. Should I post it here, via PM or on another forum?

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    Just start a new thread here on the chem forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Yup kinda figure skimmy you where one of those guys, one that has nothing to add just make remarks how flawed something is. So, here is your big chance, fell free to show us how flawed it is and how you can make it so unflawed
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    There was no disfavor at all only what was seen. Neither of them will tell you to remove your skimmer nor will I. Most of it revolves around what skimmers really do vs claims, not they they should be thrown out the window. A big issue in this hobby for years is all the skimmer marketing hype on what they do. In fact, what we have seen in all of Ken's tests is that the Bubble King works well and much better than others. So, skimmer design and operation is an important issue. A big iisue with bacterial counts being low in reef tanks is that they are very low compared to the ocean. The issue is this bad or good thing for reef tanks. Bacteria are a major food source for corals. Freshly made sea water, for example, has a higher count than a reef tank. One thing that has not been looked at yet is what speices of bacteria are they and what is their roll. What ever the case may be many reef tanks run just fine, despite bacterial counts or TOC levels. We are trying to undserdtand why and what it means so we can run systems better. That is everybody's goal I think. We have come a long way in the last 10 years.
    I'm sure you think I'm all p.o.'ed about his skimmer remarks...well, shyte, even I know that a good GAC is superior to skimming, but, that doesnt negate skimmings positive effects either IMO, lets get that right out of the way.
    But as shortsided/incomplete as I happen to think Feldman's research is on skimmers, that's not my issue here...
    I'm sick and tired of scientists comparing the ocean to closed systems in an attempt to prove their conclusions based on a flawed lack of research...
    I see this repeatedly and it annoys the hell out of me.
    In my uneducated, ignorant opinion, it's a cop out, because no one wants to set up 20+ test tanks and have a phd babysit them in a lab measuring inputs and outputs for 9-18 months to get definitive, long term results from multiple closed systems.
    And, it seems like they dont want to/cant research the whole system, so they research minutia, then chain all the individual results together and say "see?? look what I can do!"
    I'm sorry for being a naysayer... but I think there has to be a better way, maybe??
    or as you suggest, maybe I'm just stupid, ...so be it.
    you guys can make me a dunce cap...
    Last edited by Skimmy; 03-06-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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    that doesnt negate skimmings positive effects either IMO, lets get that right out of the way.

    It is so obvious either you do no read or do not understand as none of us have said that. So, lets get that out of the way.

    But as shortsided/incomplete as I happen to think Feldman's research is on skimmers

    Yah right but absolutely nothing to ad now do, as I expected, just whining.

    In my uneducated, ignorant opinion, it's a cop out,

    More gibberish nonsense. Ken does this for free on his own time. Are you going to pay him or is somebody else willing to pay or fund him to do his. You think some skimmer company will What a cop-out statement that was you made.


    I'm sorry for being a naysayer... but I think there has to be a better way, maybe??

    Yah sure , well here is all the space you want on this forum and you having to add now do you.

    I'm sick and tired of scientists comparing the ocean to closed systems in an attempt to prove their conclusions based on a flawed lack of research...

    And we are sick and tried of people like you that have nothing to add but whine when the results do not fit your cup of tea. You sound like a aquarium company who whines when we find out one of their products does not work as claimed and just a rip-off for hobbyists. Owe wait, you are a sponsor and that is often the same thing. How dare we hurt your bussiness of ripping off the hobbyist for selling useless products or one that does not work as claimed. If was not for many researchers that are in this hobby, where reef keeping is their hobby, such has Ken, Sanjay, Gary or Randy Holmes-Farley and many others finding things out for us we would still be in the stone age of reef keeping. From your post on nay saying you not only did not understand it but I doubt you even read it. What did you do just look at the nice charts without reading the actual words to explain them and what their thoughts and conclusions were ?

    comparing the ocean to closed systems in an attempt to prove their conclusions based on a flawed lack of research.

    You are just lost on this, need I say more.

    If you have NOTING constructive to say then say off my forum
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    this is a public forum, you dont have to like everyone's opinions,
    and I could care less what you think of mine. Erase them for all i care...
    I personally cant believe you'd post this kind of crap and not expect anyone to have any criticism...
    I mean, the first thing out of your mouth was:
    "I just love it when all he lines connect to the dots. Skimmers get beat up more by Ken."

    And what a childishly low blow to resort to calling me a shill just because I have criticism of the methods your friends choose to do research with,
    not only a bold face lie on your part, but a nice way to distract from the fact that this study is COMPLETELY FLAWED.... lol
    Sadly, MASSIVE VOLUMES of "scientific data" amount to nothing more than a bunch of spit in a dribble cup just because of this very same errogant, egotistical attitude that "scientific method" is beyond reproach.

    and no, im not paying you nerds to do the research... your the ones making these claims, so the burden of evidence is yours, not mine, lazy...

    so here's the deal, boomer, agree to dis-agree, and i'll stay away from this thread, (hell your whole little section on chemistry with boomer)as long as you dont bait me with BS... I dont think the mods/mems appreciate this stupid crap, and it's not what either of us signed up for... YOUR the one that made this personal, and started being disrespectful to me, until then, I in no way attacked you personally, so LET IT GO!!!
    Last edited by Skimmy; 03-07-2011 at 04:35 AM.
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