AirWaterIce <----> Marine Depot
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 87

Thread: Powder Blue Parasite, Help!

  1. #1
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35

    Powder Blue Parasite, Help!

    Hey everyone. I got this gorgeous powder blue tang about 8 months ago from a fellow reefer. She was about 6 inches in length and very healthy. Her owner told me that while she was younger she had a pretty serious ich problem that was treated with copper. This is pretty normal for tangs, and I figured the copper would have killed anything on her. I made the rookie mistake of not qting her... terrible, I know. This fish fell ill after a night in my tank - I turned on the lights in the morning to find her covered in white spots. It was definitely not marine ich, the spots were bigger and elongated, sticking out a few millimeters. I was unable to determine exactly what the parasite was, I thought maybe some form of brookynella? I fed her as much as she would eat (nori, mysis, etc) and hoped that proper diet would help. It didn't. The following morning she had massive fin deterioration and was breathing heavily. I caught her and put her in a 75 gallon qt tank, dosed cupramine and hoped for the best. The fish pulled through... amazingly. After a treatment period with copper and prazi she was on the mend. I kept her in that qt tank until her fins were regenerated (mostly). Although none of my other fish were showing signs of stress or sickness, I removed them from the display and put them in separate qt tanks with treatment for 8 weeks. I hoped that the tank being empty for that period of time would eliminate any parasite that might be lurking in the rocks/sand. The 8 week timer was up a couple of weeks ago, I waited an extra week just to be safe, then I began adding fish. I phased them in 2 at a time, least aggressive -> most, over the span of two weeks. They went in with no sign of parasites, success! Sadly, this morning I woke up to find a couple (5 or so) of those same elongated spot parasites on the powder blue. She has been in the tank for a week. The powder blue does not receive any aggression from my other tangs, nor is she aggressive to them. I don't see stress as a factor here. I'm posting some pictures, and I apologize for poor quality, I just have my camera phone. If anyone has a suggestion or has any idea what this is, let me know. Also, if I posted in the wrong section I'm sorry

    Note: the main visible spot is behind her right gill cover. There are some on her dorsal fin and left side that aren't showing up well in pictures. She lives in an established 240 gallon tank with 6 other tangs. They all get along great, I included a photo with some other fish in it. Daily feedings of nori soaked in selcon, and mysis/brine a few times a week. Water parameters are perfect. All fish were drip acclimated back to the tank for 2-3 hours.









    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Maxx; 07-15-2012 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Made pictures visible

  2. #2
    RF Staff
    NC2WA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bothell,WA
    Posts
    5,542
    Rep Power
    125
    moving to Lee's forum for better responses..
    Check out my 375 gallon tank pics: Hidden Content

    Hidden Content
    UN: guest
    Pwd: password

    Hidden Content

  3. #3
    RF Staff
    NC2WA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bothell,WA
    Posts
    5,542
    Rep Power
    125
    Water parameters are perfect
    Welcome to RF !!!

    Can you post your water parameters? I know Lee will want it.

    I can't see anything wrong with this fish...maybe a better photo??

    so the powder blue has been in your tank for 8 months and this is the first time u have noticed anything??
    do any other tangs or fish (please list) seem affected?

    hopefully Lee can chime in with his thoughts, but I agree proper diagnosis is required, as if copper is the only thing that cures brooknelia..and can spread to other fish...
    Check out my 375 gallon tank pics: Hidden Content

    Hidden Content
    UN: guest
    Pwd: password

    Hidden Content

  4. #4
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    Water Parameters:
    Temp: 78 degrees (varies 1 degree or so throughout the day)
    Salinity: 1.022
    Nitrates: 0
    Nitrites: 0
    Ammonia: 0
    Phosphates: 0
    pH: 8.2
    Ca: 440
    Alk: 9dkh

    Sorry I didn't specify. The fish has spent a lot of the time I have had it in qt. When I got it I tossed it in the tank, it fell ill so I caught it and kept it in qt for 8 weeks. I returned it to the tank and it got sick again, this time much worse. You can see the dorsal fin hasn't fully grown back yet, the parasite literally ate it away. I decided that whatever parasite it had was most likely resident in the tank so I removed all the fish, treated them, and let the tank sit with just coral/inverts for 9 weeks. I staggered the return of my tangs to the tank over a two week period, and the PBT was in the tank for a week before showing any symptoms again. Last time the fish contracted it overnight and it got really bad really fast, so I am worried. None of the other fish in the tank have shown, or are showing, any signs whatsoever. My current stock list includes a XL hippo tang, purple tang, chocolate tang, desjardini sailfin, smaller yellow tang, lieutenant tang, the PBT, a flame angel, and a mandarin. I added illustrations to make the pest easier to see. Also, I don't really believe it was brook. I can't really find any pictures online that look much like it, they are these little white things just hanging off the fish.





    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Maxx; 07-15-2012 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Making pictures visible

  5. #5
    RF Staff
    NC2WA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bothell,WA
    Posts
    5,542
    Rep Power
    125
    until Lee chimes in, keep up good water quality and good nutrition for the fish..

    http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/...rev-1-a-27014/
    Check out my 375 gallon tank pics: Hidden Content

    Hidden Content
    UN: guest
    Pwd: password

    Hidden Content

  6. #6
    RF Staff

    IPisces's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hansville, WA
    Posts
    6,627
    Rep Power
    133
    Quote Originally Posted by NC2WA View Post
    until Lee chimes in, keep up good water quality and good nutrition for the fish..
    And include a really good vitamin in every feeding.

    Hope all turns out well.
    Welcome to RF.

  7. #7
    Brittle Starfish

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    So CA
    Posts
    2,243
    Rep Power
    0
    Kind of frustrating to have such good photos show the proplem so inadequately. Tangs are not the easiest to photograph. . .I know. But the photo doesn't display the pathogen or condition very well. I will have to count on your effort to diagnose.

    I'm in Berlin, Germany for work, so there is a significant time difference between us. However, I will be watching this thread closely.

    Fish this size are almost strictly herbivores, so the feeding of macro algae is very important. Are you sure the feedings are 'enough?' I only ask because of what I read about your feedings, not because that would be the cause of the fish's current condition. Compare how you feed the macro algae to the recommendations given here and see if you are providing enough food for them: How to Feed Macro Algae to Marine Fishes.

    Soaking macro algae in vitamin and/or fat supplements doesn't work too well. It floats off pretty quickly. With such a beautiful collection of Tangs, I'd invest/make the effort to prepare some homemade food where you can heavily dose the supplements.

    I am stumped for a proper diagnosis. I could present a list of possibilities but that won't help when trying to find the cure.

    Have all your Tangs been de-wormed? If not, do that now. DeWorming and Fishes with Intestinal Problems. Feed this and your other Tangs with the de-worming meds -- don't use the bath method.

    Make an effort to take more and better photos. I need to see the 'white spots' up close and from different angles. In the meantime, you can make an effort to better describe them:
    1. They are white, but ALL white, no clear area or off-color area per spot?
    2. Size estimate.
    3. Are they individual and separated?
    4. They rise off the body -- you wrote a 'few millimeters' -- "few" is not helpful. Can you give me an actual number range?
    5. See any filament or cotton appearance?
    6. The riser parts are straight, curled, curved, or a mix?
    7. Do they 'move around?' Change position? Come and go?
    8. Any other symptoms or behavior displays the fish has? (e.g., flashing, lethargic, shy, breath rate over 100/minite, etc.)
    9. Other than the Tangs, what other marine life is in this aquarium? Do you know what other marine life was in the aquarium that this fish came from?
    10. What is the Magnesium level?
    11. Why are there no nitrates and phosphates measured?
    12. Just to verify that I understand properly: You have already treated the fish with copper, right? What medication did you use?
    13. You have treated with "prazi?" Please tell how you did this. The more details the better, please. (E.g., what did you use, where did you acquire it, how did you use it, etc.).
    14. Any other treatments?
    15. You wrote, 'Covered in white spots.' Do you really mean this -- the fish was totally covered with these? What areas? What areas (if any) were free of spots and continue to be free of spots?
    16. Any other things you can think of not covered in your posts or the above list that may have come to mind?

    I'll keep working on this if you'll keep posting replies. Thanks.
    LEE

  8. #8
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    It really is frustrating trying to get a decent picture... I realize that with the mild nature of the parasite (at this time) it doesn't look too serious. If it progresses again I will probably be able to get better pictures of it. I feed my tangs 2 sheets of Ocean Nutrition Nori per day. It usually takes them about an hour to get to the base of the clip - which according to the article you linked is alright. They all eat about the same amount, no one is ever chased away from the food, etc.

    1. Yes, completely white.
    2. They vary in size. The spot where they are anchored to the body is 1-2 mm thick. They vary a lot in length also. The one behind the fish's gill cover is 5mm in length, while the ones that are much harder to photograph are 1-2.
    3. Individual
    4. See #2, or was the question in regards to the number of visible parasites on the fish? I have counted 5 so far.
    5. No
    6. This category also varies, the bigger thicker ones I have noticed curve a little bit. They always go in the same direction, towards the tail of the fish. I think that this might be due to the fact that the fish literally never stops moving, and the current is blowing them back? maybe not.
    7. Once anchored, I never see them move. I haven't seen them come and go either.
    8. The fish is not showing any abnormal behavior. Breathing is normal, she is eating normally (like a pig), no flashing, etc.
    9. Other than tangs, I have a flame angel and a mandarin for fish. I have several shrimp and snails (cleaner shrimp, coral banded shrimp, peppermint shrimp, nassarius snails, stomatella snails, fancy nassarius snails, conches, clams, hard tube cocoa worms, SPS/LPS/soft corals, etc. The tank that she was in before had no machines hooked up to it other than a light. The sump was full of healthy macro and floss to serve as a mechanical filter. She lived with a very large unknown wrasse, a snowflake eel, a pair of ocellaris clowns, carpet anemone, etc.
    10. I supplement magnesium and it stays around 1300 ppm
    11. I use RO water and have never had issues with phosphates... and I skim like crazy and have a sump full of macro to keep my nitrates at untraceable amounts.
    12. I used cupramine
    13. I used Aquarium Solutions PraziPro that I purchased online at Foster & Smith (I don't have an LFS that carries anything useful). I followed the instructions. I used the product for 7 days, waited 5 days, and then did another treatment (as I was still seeing some minor symptoms) for 5 days. I did not use cupramine and PraziPro at the same time.
    14. I did not use any other treatments. I saw the symptoms receding with what I was doing, and with an unsure diagnosis, I didn't want to stress the fish more by treating it more.
    15. I meant this. The fish was covered. The more that were on her the more consistent their size, closer to 3-5 mm. They were all separate, and they covered the PBT's body, face, fins. They attacked the fins the hardest, as within 36 hours she had massive fin deterioration. It was really terrible to witness... I still feel really bad about it. Her tail and back half of the dorsal/anal fins were reduced to almost stubs. The pectoral fins were damaged but have grown back completely. I attached a photo of what the fish looked like as she was getting better. It really stuns me how quickly the infestation progressed.
    16. Not really. I haven't turned my lights on yet, but from looking at the fish under moonlights I can't really see an increase in the # of spots. This is really strange to me, considering how it blew up last time. I will keep a very close eye on her. I haven't dewormed the fish... I read the article and didn't see any symptoms that match. I will look into the product anyway and try and get some. Thanks for all the help

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Maxx; 07-15-2012 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Making picture visible

  9. #9
    Brittle Starfish

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    So CA
    Posts
    2,243
    Rep Power
    0
    Without any further evidence, I put this into the category of a worm-like parasite. That would be one of three possibles, since PraziPro had no effect. Either a) internal; b) external exposed; or c) external protected.

    If you proceed to de-worm the fish by feeding the medication, that will deal with a).

    The b) kind are killed off by either a FW bath; a Formalin bath; or in most cases, the use of both. Each is given every other day for a total of 4 treatments (although 5 is preferred). You do a FW bath and if you see anything in the bath water or note any (positive) change in the fish, continue on with both this and the Formalin treatment. If you don't see any effect at all, you then just continue on with the Formalin treatment.

    Killing c) type parasites often kills the fish.

    You have the choice of just doing a euthanasia if you don't want to risk this fish infecting others and think you can't do the treatments. Euthanasia Putting a Marine Fish Down.

    For the FW bath, follow these guidelines except only dip the fish for 7-8 minutes total:
    Fresh Water Fish Dip.

    For the Formalin bath, follow these guidelines:
    http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/...nefishes38818/

    After the first FW bath, check the bathwater carefully to see if you see if anything came off the fish. Also, inspect the fish closely. If you are sure nothing has come off the fish and the fish does NOT look any better, then continue on with the Formalin treatments and skip further FW baths. Do the Formalin treatment (one bath every other day) even if you think it's not working.

    If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask!
    LEE

  10. #10
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    Thanks so much. The possibility of a worm-like organism has crossed my mind, but it is odd that it starts off small (like a normal ich spot) and then grows outward. I suppose the next step is to catch the fish... time to get out my trap! How contagious would b) or c) be? Should I be concerned about other healthy fish contracting the same illness? I read that some worms can host in snails if there are no fish present, could this have made my fallow period pointless? Thanks again for all the info

  11. #11
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    Is this the correct deworming product? https://www.pondrx.com/products/16162.html
    The main ingredient is praziquantel, but it is made for ponds

  12. #12
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    New development... after a love affair with the cleaner shrimp, my PBT has no visible parasites on her. Should I plan to treat her anyway for unseen parasites? This fish normally avoids the shrimp, and it took about 20 minutes for him to dislodge all of the visible entities. I really appreciate all the responses on this. I will continue to update if her condition changes, or if she relapses again -_- Thanks Lee and everyone else

  13. #13
    RF Staff
    NC2WA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bothell,WA
    Posts
    5,542
    Rep Power
    125
    good news....to answer your question about prazipro...

    this is what I use:

    Aquarium Fish Medications: Aquarium Solutions PraziPro

    as long the main ingredient is praziquantel you are OK.
    Check out my 375 gallon tank pics: Hidden Content

    Hidden Content
    UN: guest
    Pwd: password

    Hidden Content

  14. #14
    Brittle Starfish

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    So CA
    Posts
    2,243
    Rep Power
    0
    Don't count on the cleaner fish or cleaner shrimp. They don't 'eat' these kinds of parasites at all. What is going on is that the protrusions are being removed, not the imbedded worm. As you have pointed out, they start as spots and grow. You are not seeing the parasite. Proceed with treatments.

    You want to get Praziquantel inside the fish, so you want to lace its food with this. This doesn't work well with just feeding macro algae. It works well if you get a prepared gel food and push some of the powder into it so it goes down into the intestinal track of the fish. Follow the procedure here: DeWorming and Fishes with Intestinal Problems.




    LEE

  15. #15
    RF Staff
    Rea17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ferndale, Washington
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    35
    NC2WA, so PraziPro can be used orally to take care of internal worms? That is the exact product I have, and it didn't work as a long term cure.

    Lee, thanks for the sound advice. I know cleaners don't really do much, but it is nice to see the fish not looking any worse... I will continue with the deworming and hopefully that will take care of the problem. Thanks everyone!

Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •