Marine Depot <----> Sierra Fish & Pets
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46

Thread: Wavelength-specific intensity drop for flourescents?

  1. #1
    alveopora
    dnjan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,585
    Rep Power
    0

    Wavelength-specific intensity drop for flourescents?

    Having looked at Sanjay's results concerning wavelength-specific drops for MH bulbs as they age:

    Sanjay's Aged MH Report

    and noting that all the bulbs tested (6500's, 10k's and 20k's) had about a 40% drop in the actinic (420nm) range in one year, I was wondering if anybody has a link to wavelength-specific test results for the various actinic flourescent bulbs (VHO, PC, and T-5)?

    Since those of us using flourescents along with MH's generally do so (at least in part) to supplement the actinic end, I would like to use the type of flourescent that lasts longest in the 420nm range.
    Don

  2. #2
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    Use std , Actinic 03 that is about the only wave length they prdouce

    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  3. #3
    alveopora
    dnjan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,585
    Rep Power
    0
    I was curious how fast that 420nm peak dropped off, and if it dropped off at different rates for different types of flourescents (VHO vs T-5 vs PC). Happen to know of any data?

    By the way - which actinic bulb is that spectrum graph for?
    Don

  4. #4
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    I don't know of any drop of rates like those Sanjay's has done on MH for fluors

    By the way - which actinic bulb is that spectrum graph for?

    Many people get confused Dave with what some bulb companies have done with the word "actinic". The term is mis-used often. Bulb companies are more or less doing what you are saying, so much actinic in their bulb. "Actinic is a bulb which produces almost nothing but 420 nm light and is called an Actinic 03. That bulb above is a std Actinic 03 fluorescent lamp. Almost any std Actinic 03 looks like that. Their bulb is very blue and came from the photo industry. We started using them 20 + years ago. So called "actinic" bulbs look noting like this, it is just a play on words. A std flour which has a high peak in the 420 nm region, is often called actinic but it not a true Actinic.

    Actinic 03 lamp like the SED I posted above is a 24W Actinic 03 T5 HO Fluorescent, made by ATI

    A Super Actinic looks like this even more blue 420 nm


    A ture Actinic is a blue bulb


    A so called "actinic" Sun, much different than a true Actinic

    Last edited by Boomer; 03-22-2005 at 09:56 AM.
    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  5. #5
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    I think URI makes some true actinic 03 lamps. Didn't you post an article, Boomer about how fluorescents drop off in about 6 months, regardless of how bright they look doesn't mean they are useful top an aquarium unless it is used mainly for coloration. I know my office lamps will burn umm say over a year but do you think they really put out the same after 6 months? I brought this up about useful penetration of MH lamps into water, the frequencies/temps. that will be used by corals & affects of light transmission through air as compared to water, testing the distance of air gap before reaching the water & then through the water. I guess what I'm getting at is what is best for the corals, longest usable life regardless of kelvin, I know the 65k lamps punch PAR higher than most higher K lamps. Should we go for more bang for lamp buck & supplement with actinic 03 to compensate coloration and not worry about the fluorescents life? I think these pain killers I'm taking is confusing me, so excuse my drifting off lol.

  6. #6
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    Yes, Scoot any of them will fall off and loose intensity also but those set to a more specific wavelength usually loose less K, because the phosphors are more or less the same.


    I know my office lamps will burn umm say over a year but do you think they really put out the same after 6 months?

    Yes,and a simple LUX meter will show that.

    light transmission through air as compared to water, testing the distance of air gap before reaching the water & then through the water.

    Light in air more or less follows the (ISL) inverse square law but technically not really but can be used as guide for air In water it is a different beast, dependent on temp, TDS, TSS ( Total Suspended Solids), etc. In pure water it will fellow what we call Light extinction/absorption coefficients, where nm wave light x will be extinct at y distance. There is actually an equation for it and/or tables. I have never seen any for seawater, just pure water, from depth a-z. Although there is allot of data on mean seawater for a number of areas.

    Light bulbs on an aquarium is another whole different beast, ie., reflectors, glass from the tank. etc. Each tank will be different.

    I know the 65k lamps punch PAR higher than most higher K lamps

    That would be only the Iwasaki, I think, some what of a different type of light bulb


    Should we go for more bang for lamp buck & supplement with actinic 03 to compensate coloration and not worry about the fluorescents life?

    That may be ok for some, me, I just don't like the L@@K's of things. Some peoples tanks with to much 03 are realllllllllly blue and a reef does not look that way at all, more on the blue-green side to yellow-green............hmmmmmmmmm Iwasaki 65 K Although that is natural to most corals and makes them grow better, it has a dull look to it for us. From what I've seen so far I like the XM-10K

    I think URI makes some true actinic 03 lamps.

    Kinda but not really. There once was a man named Dr.Perry Thrasher, that was director of research and development for Light Sources. It is this guys light, the 03 and may of the aquarium fluoro's that he designed and brought in to this hobby. Many of the fluoro's in this hobby are his and still made at Light Sources, with other names on them, like URI. He is the inventor of built in reflectors and tri-phosphor bulbs. At least 50 % and more like 75 % of these lamps on this planet are made here

    http://www.light-sources.com/

    You ma be interested in this manual for free
    http://www.intl-light.com/handbook/registered.html
    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  7. #7
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    I'd imagine trying to test light transmission through a salty reef aquarium would be like trying to count all the stars in the universe! lol
    Thanks Boomer, I think eventually I will loose my fluorescents & go completely MH, right now I have the blueline 10k 250 watter, it starts off yellow & after warm up it kicks in to a nice crisp whitish color, maybe I'll add two XM's on either side, if I can get good lamps that is, they still have problems with some yellowing.

  8. #8
    alveopora
    dnjan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,585
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer
    Light in air more or less follows the (ISL) inverse square law but technically not really but can be used as guide for air
    Actually, not close. For line sources (flourescents) with no reflector, the intensity decrease in air (ignoring absorption, reflectance, etc.) is linear. With a proper reflector, and when you are concerned with light hitting the water surface at close enough to 90 degrees to maximize penetration and minimize reflection off the water surface, distance between the water and the bulb has practically no effect for the area under the reflector. So with T-5 and PC flourescent systems with good reflectors, no effect. Unfortunately, the reflector built into URI VHO's is not that good of a reflector.
    Don

  9. #9
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    I said light in air and nothing about bulb x, y or z, and I said with reflectors or no reflector is another whole different beast. Take a flour and suspend it in air. You can do that with water proof end-caps. Put a LUX meter on the floor and take a reading at 1 foot, then raise it to 4 feet and take another reading, it will not be linear or close to it. Have you taken any such measuremants ? As I said technically but not really, as you can only use the ISL porperly where the light source approximates a point source.

    Scoot

    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  10. #10
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    Would this be the same in a vacuum?

  11. #11
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    Technically speaking Scoot it is only for a vacuum.
    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  12. #12
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    Just ran across a situation I never thought much about but this would also have an effect on MH lighting. I have a fan directly blowing on my MH lamps, about 6" in front of the bulb. I know that running the lamp cooler than it was designed may have an impact on PAR or coloration. I can't see the color difference, but wonder is it justifiable to loose the major heat transfer to water as compared to the loss in PAR if any?

  13. #13
    RF Staff
    Boomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2,781
    Rep Power
    94
    Lamps are designed within a rather large range, your fans will have no impact. It will depend some what on the actual lamp, its ballast and peak voltage. The ballast is more effected by temp tha bulbs. For bulbs, it is more on the order of to much heat. In general, 210 C at the base and 350C at the outer edge of the glass is max, at least for mogul based bulbs. For all practical purposes the plasma arch tube is independent of ambient temp's. They are designed to operate from 50 F to -20F
    Boomer

    Want to Talk Chemistry ! Hidden Content

    Want to See More !

    Hidden Content


    Hidden Content

    If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up


    An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

  14. #14
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    Guess I left that part out, I'm using a 250w blueline electronic ballast, it never seems to get more than warm, that bulb is also a blueline 10k

  15. #15
    Owner / Administrator
    Scooterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    12,305
    Rep Power
    10
    Reviving this old thread, It reminds me a while back when I said I had a fan on the lamp wondered if it would hurt the lamp, also the life of Lamps!

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •