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Aptisia, solution or pollution?

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Scooterman

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I've tried several ideas, this weekend I made a solution that works better than anything I paid for. I took the normal syringe, made a mixture of calk past but instead of RO water used vinegar, made it a little watery, in small douses I don't think it will harm anything, but to be safe I'm still testing the waters out, it is all good so far. It not only melts the aptisia but also acts like a blanket covering it from light. Anyone else doing this, good bad?
 

DonW

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I did both the rodi and vingar for a while with no problem that I could see.
I also gave up on both. As fast as I could kill the ones I could see, three more would show up somewhere else. I assume I'm feeding them way to well. As soon as I get the new larger skimmer in to help with the nutrients, I'm going in search of a baby Copper Band.

Don
 

DonW

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cdeakle said:
Why no JoesJuice?
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I believe you are suposed to do some serious water changes after using that stuff. That alone would tell me it cant be good for everything else you want to survive. If it kills them just think about what all it is killing. They seem to thrive in a high nutrient enviroment but what about all the denitrifing bacteria and things of the like. I dont think there is any real studies on the effect to the other microscopic life forms. Last but not least nobody know what the He#$ it is. I dont think I want to by something that the maker will not label the contents. Heck for all we know its liquid draino.

Don
 

uwscotch

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I've been using CaOH (Calc slurry) made with RO/DI for a number of years. I understand the reasoning for mixing CaOH in vinegar, more goes into solution. How ever, the reason more goes into solution is because you have change the pH considerably. The CaOH is caustic and essentially burns the aptasia and kills them. This is neutralized with vinegar, therefor I do not recommend this approach. Some CaOH may precipitate out as soon as you add the vinegar solution to the tank and if this lands on the aptasia, it may kill it, but i strongly recommend the use of the RO/DI slurry. Proud to say my tank is aptasia free. Every new specimen is quarantined untill I find the little buggers popping out of the crevices. My quarantine tank is high in nutrients since I use it for amphipod, etc. culture. I keep the specimen that I have obtained in a container submerged within the quarantine tank that way the aptasia are less likely to escape and populate my tank. To get to the point, this has worked well for me for a long time.
 

NaH2O

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Don - I don't believe that water changes are necessary. The product has to be fed to the anemone in order for it to work.

Here is a thread on the product: Joes Juice Rules
 

Scooterman

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I don't want to talk bad about any product in particular, but it just never worked for me. Every one came back within a few weeks. I mixed the paste starting with RO/DI then siphoned in a small amount of vinegar.
 

DonW

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NaH2O said:
Don - I don't believe that water changes are necessary. The product has to be fed to the anemone in order for it to work.

Here is a thread on the product: Joes Juice Rules
Sorry thought it was a dump it in product. So the reality is you are doing the same thing as kalk? Kill one three more pop up in its place. But at least with the kalk you know what it is. I guess my pet peve is the secrective main ingredient and why we cant know what it is.

Don
 

reedman

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Hey Don,

I tried some of the JJ and it seems to work well when applied per the instructions. You need to shut off the flow and feed it to the aiptasia/mojano. This is different from the Kalk method in which you just inject it into the pest. If you do this with JJ, I don't believe it will work. I have not had anymore spring up as a result of using it in my tank, nor have I had any losses.

I would like to see what the ingredients are, but I understand the guy not wanting to reveal the makeup until it is patented. It may just be Kalk past for I we know...and if it is, he wouldn't sell any of the stuff because people would just mix their own. He's a business man, and I would think that after the patent goes through he would reveal the contents of the product (I hope anyway).

Time will tell. In the meantime, I use a very small amount of the stuff very infrequently. I waited a good while and followed the threads on some other boards about the stuff before trying it. I don't believe it is a miracle cure, but it is a way to get rid of some of them if you only have a few and allows you to get an edge in trying to eliminate the source of the problem (typically high nutrients in the tank feeding them).

My 2 cents for all it's worth.
-Reed
 

Scooterman

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I use it as per instructions, to the letter, I didn't have new ones poping up, just the very same ones after a week or so, I made sure of each location. I also treated over and over on several, didn't work any better than a kalk paste.
 

DonW

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Reed,
I dont inject kalk, I feed it to them, it works great. I'm not questioning wether the product works or not just what is in it.
As a business person trying to protect a product, a temporary patent is easily had. Takes less than thirty days and protects the product for a period of one year. This is to cover your butt in the actual patent process. Your application for patent is public record and is ready for public viewing within 30 days of receipt. The us patent office web site is only behind by about two weeks. This lack of patent application was brought up in another thread that Nikki pointed out. As of 8/17/04 there is no application pending. IF it was found, that it is an over the counter product mixed with water the patent application would not be accepted. I just went through this with my CA reactor and found that its not patentable due to the use of other patented products not authorized for manufacturing use by their respective owners.

I'm not bashing the product I would just like to know what is in it and what are the long term effects of using it.

Don
 

reedman

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Don,

Man, you know way more than I on the patent front and based on your knowledge, I don't think I will support this guy with anymore purchases since he should be protected and could easily reveal the contents of his product now. All he really needs to do is reveal the chemical composition, right? I mean Kalk is just a purer form of Pickling Lime and the bag doesn't say "Pickling Lime" it says calcium something or other on it.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. I'm just glad I haven't had any losses (except the mojanos that I wanted to kill).
 

big t

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I really get a kick out of watching aiptasia eat kalk paste. I guess I am just sadistic. Feeding them kalk paste has worked for me also.
 

DonW

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reedman said:
Don,

Man, you know way more than I on the patent front and based on your knowledge, I don't think I will support this guy with anymore purchases since he should be protected and could easily reveal the contents of his product now. All he really needs to do is reveal the chemical composition, right? I mean Kalk is just a purer form of Pickling Lime and the bag doesn't say "Pickling Lime" it says calcium something or other on it.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. I'm just glad I haven't had any losses (except the mojanos that I wanted to kill).
Reed,
Again I'm not bashing the product, but IMO you should'nt put unknown substances in your tank. The other concern is there is no MSDS info that I could find on the product. Selling chemicals can tricky and the lack of the msds info would tell me its food safe or not properly registered.

Don
 

reedman

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No, I get what you're saying.

I'm just inclined to agree with you and the other folks that would like to have the ingredients disclosed. After reading your posts I don't see any reason he shouldn't disclose them on his product. I'm the last one to bash the product, as it's working for me, but I now see why people believe the ingredients should be disclosed. Additionaly, I now understand why people are saying that the patent pending is not a reason not to disclose them.

Learning on the fly...great info in this thread. Thanks for shedding light on the topic for me.
 

uwscotch

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Time to do some experiments. I do not feel like doing any HPLC or other chromatography approaches to figure out what it is, but when I get some spare time on the weekend, I will try to determine if it is in fact CaOH. I will not be able to determine if food is mixed in to make it taste good. I will leave that for someone else to taste it. I'll keep you posted.

uwscotch
 

DonW

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Curtswearing said:
I have absolutely no proof of this. However, I suspect JJ is a Kalk mixed with some sort of food that is palatable to anemones.
We could guess all day long, until there is a real chemical brake down we will never know. You dont see Kent products without ingredient list.
That being the case testing the ph, kh and calcium might give some more info as wether or not its just kalk.If there were a lack of calcium i would lean toward some sort of acid(hydrochloric). That being the case it would react to household bleach or ammonia.
Or maybe its some sort of chlorite which should react to ammonia.
But even with all those suggestions we still dont know the trace elements such as copper, would'nt that be a drag.

Don
 

Scooterman

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TO me JJ stunned them for a long time, smaller ones died but the bigger ones came back, even after several tries. I think whatever it is, it isn't just Kalk!
 

wrightme43

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I don't know whats in J.J. but I do know kalk paste will mess them up. I hate aptaisia, Kalk kills them, its simple, its in my house already, and I know it works. Death to aptaisia.
 
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