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Barebottom Question..

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Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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12
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Anderson
My tank has been setup (barebottom) for aprox 2 months....just liverock and a few crabs......this was a tank switch from sand to barebottom...I have boiled the rock....scrubbed the rock...again..again..and again...and I am still fighting hair algae...water changes also with RO/DI water.

I have done everything I know.....

Any help with be helpfull......

Thanks MBL
 

NaH2O

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Jan 25, 2004
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MBL - are you blowing the rocks off daily? How have your water parameters been, and have you tested phosphates - did you experience a cycle with the switch? How long was the rock in the sandbed tank, and did you perform any turkey basting maintenance on the rock then? My last question is, how bad is the algae? Your rock may still be trying to clean itself out, so the nutrients are feeding the algae. One more question (I know, I already said that :) ) - Do you have a good skimmer and good flow pattern?
 

Katchupoy

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I think you are still curing... do you have snails and crabs to take care of these?
I fixed mine by putting a yellow tang...
 

Witfull

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boiling the rock will only get rid of the algae on it,,it the rock has a sufficient P level it will grow back...cooking the rock or letting the algae consume it is the only way to reduce locked levels. hebivores are grat for keeping algae in check as long as removal of their waste is done, or else the P will recycle back into the system.
 

Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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Anderson
I do blow off the rocks..but not everyday...will start today...

I will say I have to clean up a mess off the bottom all the time.....so I guess the rock are still puking....

I just checked the Phosphates and they show 0.

My Ph is rather high about 8.6 and alk is low....how should I go about to fix these levels.

Nitrates and nitrites are 0

I am using a Nautilus TE skimmer, it is ok....

My flow rate is good, I am also getting ready to purchase a wave controller this week.

My ammonia is a little high but I just did a major cleanup job on the filter pads in my sump.....this should drop very soon...
 

Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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Anderson
I boiled the rock for about 4 weeks and have scrubbed them many times....

The tank has set empty except for the rock and some crabs, have been waiting on the algae to clear...

The hair algae has turned ito a brown color this week, and has cleared some.
Here is a pic of the rocks boiling..

I also just added some corals this week.

The rocks had been in a sand bed for 3 years.

MBL
 
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Curtswearing

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Nov 20, 2003
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St. Louis, MO
Mike,

According to his post on another forum, he means, "cooking" the rock.

MBL,

(I'm glad you aren't UBL :) ) It is always a good practice to periodically cook the rocks to help them catch up with our overdoses of phosphate inputs. However, this does not get rid of the phosphates in/on LR, it merely reduces them. The phosphates naturally adsorb to CaCO3 and there is nothing we can do about that beyond limiting their input and doing our best to export them via skimming, etc.. The bacteria always want this phosphate so they excrete an enzyme (phosphatase) to "melt" the LR to grab the phosphate off of it. There's nothing we can do about that either. That's why it is so important to turkey baste the LR often...the byproducts of this process and bacteria that previously died, are perfect algae food.

To make matters worse, hair algae is also GREAT at trapping detritus and then feeding off the breakdown of the detritus. When turkey basting, make sure that you do a thorough job IN the algae patch. Like Wit said, it is important to make sure that the herbivore waste is removed. Otherwise, 90% of the nutrients that were in the algae will be re-released to the tank.

I'm sure this problem can be solved but we definately need some answers to Nikki's questions to proceed.

BTW....great seeing you again.

EDIT: NEVERMIND LOL!!!
 
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Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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Anderson
I really like this site....just hope I can give some good input....just this is kicking my butt....since I am new to barebottom, this is all new to me...

I will say going barebottom sure shows you what a sandbed absorbs and why they fill, but not just phosphates but pure junk.

Thanks Curtswearing, glad to be here.

MBL
 

mojoreef

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Cool MBL, In cooking the rocks you have allowed an ammount of detritus/end product to shed from the rock, you woud have to leave it thier for a long long time to get it all. By looking at the rock it looks like the sheding process is still on going, the algae is johnny on the spot to soak it up as its coming out as Witful and Curt have said .
With the rocks sitting directly in the sand it means they have more crude then then should, so this is probibly way its still coming out. Think of it this way, just the fact they are sheding and you are removing it is a big plus, better then it sitting inside building up. heres a couple things for ya.
>keep blowing off the rocks and make sur you get right inside the hair algae to. also keep a good maintenance schedule on syphoning out the stuff on the bottom of the tank.
> I would get some astrea snails, they will eat the algae and poop most of it out, but you have a better chance at removing thier poop with skimming and such then by trying to harvest the algae.
> if you can increase the flow a bit more to keep the detritus in suspention and allow it to get out of the tank that would be great.
> it doesnt look like you have any fish so if you then I would imagine you dont feed, if you do I would cut right back on thier food for a while until the porblem subsides.

Do you add anything to the tank?? additives or any types of food?? what kind of salt do you use??

Mike
 

Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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Anderson
Mojoreef,
I just added a pump behind the rocks for water movement, I am adding 4 more powerheads along with a wave maker controller. I have no fish but have added a few corals, do you think I should move them into my other tank for now?

I am not adding any additives at this time or feeding, I am using Instant Ocean Salt.

My goal is to make this a SPS tank along with a few softies and clams.

I am running 2 250 10000 k Metal and 440 VHO lighting

I am open to all suggestions....I want to make this tank rock...

What should I add to get my PH and Alk correct?

Thanks everyone,
MBL
 

mojoreef

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MBL your behind it a bit because of the condition of the LR. All it mean is that you need to be a little more pacient in waiting for the rocks to come back to a better condition. Here is a suggestion for ya. By looking at your tank it looks like you have a couple rocks that are really bad (encrusted with algae) the balance of the rocks look pretty good with just a few spots here and their. I would take the couple of bad rocks out and put them in a big pot and literaly boil them for a couple of hours. allow them to cool and put them back in the tank. they will be quickly repopulated with bacteria with in days, with the exception of the majority of detritus. I just did this to my tank on a couple of rocks that were very old but still had great shape. it took about a month or two until they were back to purple. this will save you some time, plus it will add some fresh/uncloged rock to the filtration equation.

On the chemistry problem, I would need to know your alk, cal and magnesium levels to take a stab at it


take care


Mike
 

wooddood

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Sep 22, 2003
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marion in
ron you know i'm bare bottom also and had the same problem with crap collecting in the dead spots, no hair algea though thank the lord but a little cyno but very little. increase your flow considerablly and i think you can whip this problem. good luck.




dave. :cool:
 

Katchupoy

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woodood... make this dead spot work for your advantage...

arrange your flow in such a wasy that you have these dead spots in a manner that it is very accessible for siphoning... which is very good. very easy maintenance
 

Katchupoy

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MBL. since you are just starting... do you have corals already? The reason im asking is because, probably you are better off curing your tank without lights... low lights can inhibit coraline algae. remember that algae loves two things. nutrients and lights.

since you dont have anything yet... you can control lights... and nutrients is very easy if you have skimmer. and water change...

I remember paul[fragman] cured his rocks for so many months in a container without light access. And this is also a popular way of curing in the Manila where I came from.

I dont suggest that you pull your rocks out but maybe limiting the light will help a lot.
 

reiple

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Aug 8, 2004
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manila
i have hair algae problems and i did even more frequent water changes and strog skimming. hair algae still came but less faster this time. so i slowly bought turbo snails (added in small groups rather than one dumping). Now these critters clean the rocks of hair algae! worked fine for me.
 

Mebigloser

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Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
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Location
Anderson
I am thinking about cooking the rocks again instead of leaving them in the tank...I will just move all my corals and do this right...

How long should I cook these guys or should I wait it out?
Opinions please.....

MBL
 
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mojoreef

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MBL its hard to tell how long the cooking will take. It depends on the condition of the rock and how plugged up it is. I personally have cooked rocks for months. In looking at your tank picture it doesnt look like it is every where, just really heavy on a few rocks. I would suggest taking those rocks (bad ones) and boiling them in a pot. they will quickly regain thier bacterial population and critter population after you place them back in the tank. You also are making them perfect for corraline regrowth. Having them start from scratch makes them perfect filterers and turns the bad rocks into good.


Mike
 

Mebigloser

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Mar 21, 2004
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Anderson
Ok, I will boil the bad ones and probably scrubb the rest again.

I will then do a water change and see how it goes....

Thanks Everyone for the help.

MBL
 
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