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design ideas for sump and closed loop

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Doka

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Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
13
Location
Spokane
I have a 100 g acrylic tank with some sps but mostly lps and a few softies. I bought a 29 glass tank for a sump/refugium and I also want to take out the powerheads from the main tank.

So... I am looking at two overflow boxes, fairly small, about 1/3 the way in from the corners and fluted on 3 sides. I am putting them here because the acrylic braces on the tank come out from the ends at least 8" so my access will be through equipment cutouts.

question 1) do I need anything else in the overflow boxes other than the bulkhead fitting to keep the noise down?

I was planning on combining the 2 overflow pipes and dropping the water into the sump in the same pipe but:

question 2) why would I want to put some of the water into different parts of the sump/refugium?

For the return pump I was thinking about a mag 9.5
I am not looking for lots of flow here I guess because I plan on putting in a closed loop. so:

question 3) does this sound like enough horse power or too much?

The sump return will go to the top of the tank and split into 2 returns.

Question 4) Should I put the sump returns on the back wall near the ends of the tank or in the middle between the overflow boxes?


For the closed loop. I looked at nikki's. I want to tone mine down a bit... So 2 outs to the pump and 4 in's. I was thinking about a mag 18 for this.

question 5) Do I have enough outs and returns for the closed loop?

So is the combined flow enough?

thanks for your input.

peter
 

NaH2O

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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
8,568
Hi Peter! Sorry for the delay in posting. I'll try to answer some of your questions the best I can. I am having trouble visualizing what your tank looks like with the overflows and top, but I think I have a general idea.

In the overflows were you planning on doing a Durso Standpipe or a Stockman's Standpipe? These will reduce the noise in the overflow.

I was planning on combining the 2 overflow pipes and dropping the water into the sump in the same pipe but:

question 2) why would I want to put some of the water into different parts of the sump/refugium?
You don't have to put the water into different parts of the sump with 2 overflows. My 2 overflows go into the same first compartment with the skimmer - one pipe just has a longer trip than the other.

The sump return will go to the top of the tank and split into 2 returns.

Question 4) Should I put the sump returns on the back wall near the ends of the tank or in the middle between the overflow boxes?
You can place them however you would like. You aren't going to use this for part of the overall circulation....just to return water. If you want these out of the way, stick them on the ends, or only use one return. My return is configured this way (1 pipe returning up and over the top).

For the closed loop. I looked at nikki's. I want to tone mine down a bit...
:) - I would with a tank of softies and LPS. You would be likely to rip the tissue right off, and have swimming mushrooms ;) ;) :)

Do you know how you want to place the closed loop holes? Any particular pattern? Were you going to have a substrate, if so what kind?

Hopefully someone with better pump knowledge can chime in with recommendations on these questions.

Hope this helped a little bit?
 

kimoyo

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Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
79
Location
New York, NY
Doka said:
question 2) why would I want to put some of the water into different parts of the sump/refugium?
Some people separate the drain so that some of the water goes into the sump and some goes into the refugium. But if you do this then you probably want to still join the drains and then separate them. It would just ensure that you had an even draw on both drains.
Doka said:
For the return pump I was thinking about a mag 9.5
I am not looking for lots of flow here I guess because I plan on putting in a closed loop. so:

question 3) does this sound like enough horse power or too much?
The higher the flow thru your sump the harder it is to get rid of microbubbles. The wider your sump the easier it is to get rid of bubbles at higher flow rates if your using baffles. I don't think a 29 is probably wide enough and 950 is a high flow thru the sump. Since you have a CL then you don't have to worry about the flow thru the sump as much. I also like to give my skimmer time to skim the water while it goes thru. For example my aquac ev 180 uses a mag7 but the flow thru is about 300gph. But you could use filter socks or pads to get rid of the bubbles.

Doka said:
For the closed loop. I looked at nikki's. I want to tone mine down a bit... So 2 outs to the pump and 4 in's. I was thinking about a mag 18 for this.

question 5) Do I have enough outs and returns for the closed loop?
I don't really like mag's that much unless I have to use a high pressure pump such as for my skimmer. They are great pumps but you can hear like most of the high pressure pumps. The Dolphin Ampmasters or Sequences are great because they are quiet and low power, but they are low pressure pumps. They have 1.5 outlets and you can't really reduce them because when then get reduced to 1in piping they cut their flow by 30 or 40%. But if you split the return from them and then reduce it you will be okay. You have to match the area of the outlets to the area (3.14*radius*radius) of the 1.5pipe. So for example, the area of 1.5 pipe outlets = area of four 3/4 pipe outlets. Are far as how many outlets you want for your flow I'll let someone else speak to that. Hope it helps.

Paul
 
Last edited:

Doka

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
13
Location
Spokane
Ok,

sorry for the long delay here. I thought I posted something but I must have had an error.

Anyway..... I am planning on using a small overflow box like these http://www.barraquatic.com/ (click the overflow box link on the left) and not a bottom drain.

So with these I am not using a durso or stockman pipe am I??

I have a shallow sand substrate by the way.

The question I have is do I need anything else in the overflow box besides just the bulkhead fittings? Is there some thing like the durso for these applications?

thanks

peter
 

reefer

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Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
136
Location
Olympia, WA
Nikki Said
You don't have to put the water into different parts of the sump with 2 overflows. My 2 overflows go into the same first compartment with the skimmer - one pipe just has a longer trip than the other.
Why one pipe longer than the other?
 

NaH2O

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
8,568
I probably did a poor job in explaining that. I've attached a picture of my sump. The plumbing on the left comes down from the overflow box, then goes all the way to the right of the photo. The plumbing (can't see it) from the overflow box on the right goes straight down. It is located behind the skimmer. We used a lot more plumbing getting the left overflow into the sump than the right overflow.
 

reefer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
136
Location
Olympia, WA
Thanks, Mine are both at the same depth in the sump and I thought from your statement that maybe I could cut down on the micro-bubbles in the sump by varying depths of the return. I thought maybe you had hit on something. I have played with mine alot and done some extensive piping arrainements to quite it as much as I can. It's hard to sometimes say what you mean.
 
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