Going insane!

[Macbeth417]

I am going nuts trying to get my 110gal together. I have been working on plumbing designs for weeks now and just can't get it hammered out. I have been working on this tank for two and a half months now and just want some damned water in it.

Here is my current plumbing design. I personally see one problem and it is the same one I have struggled with since the get go. How do I prevent my sump returns from syphoning back into the sump.
Here is my newest diagram. I really need some help here, becuase I am going insane not getting anything done on this tank.

Diagram:
http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20plumb%20design1.3.jpg


-Erik

 

[Scooterman]

As soon as your returns starts sucking air, the suction will be lost. Some people will drill a small hole at some point on the return line, just below the water line. Nice design, take your time and figure it all out first, It will pay off, I'm glad to see this your not rushing. Also, dump the check valves, I see no need for them but eventual problems. Dump the ball valves on the drains, you won't really need them but it could be ok for repairs maybe. let me study it more, some of my remarks my not be appropriate. BRB

Ok I will post question from your drawing!

 

[Scooterman]

Try the StockMan instead, they are quieter and easier to make, I've made both, think the Durso sucks(LOL It does) too hard to tweak. The drain from the overflow will stop at the level of the standpipe(never frgured out why their called that). That part is easy, the return from the pump, will break when air is sucked in, you don't show it coming out the overflow but guessing that is what you intended.


http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe-ken_stockman.htm

 

[Macbeth417]

No, Scooter the return is not comming up through the over flow. It is as I have drawn it. It runs up the back of the tank and out through two bulk heads. My original design had a return in the overflow, but it was much more complicated and cramped that way. Not to mention the angles walls of the overflow make it more of a challenge.

Here is that older design :
http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20plumb%20design1.2.jpg

-Erik

 

[Scooterman]

Ahhh, I see now after looking closer.
Well If you could raise your returns closer to the top that would resolve the suction problem but if it is glass or you just don't want then to be that high, then installing a check on each of the returns at the top may be an option/ or you could run a line inside to the top that would suck air and somehow attach it to the returns (like drill a hole in the return pipe sticking out and somehow plum an air hose going up) You could run PVC going up higher inside the tank then spraying back down but closer to the top. I really don't trust check valves because of all the stories told about them, plugging up. I also read where this one guy, ran a TEE right before the returns went into the tank, the top part vented up higher above the tank water level. Maybe this is an option somehow.

Just a few thoughts your way, I guess you know what your wanting, maybe the looks isn't something you want to see. I'd need more of your reasoning for the way it is plumbed so I can try and fit some idea to your needs.

 

[Macbeth417]

Scooter...
I am planning this tank for sps. I have taken care of lighting (2X 250watt HQI +VHO acentic) and I would like to make sure they have a healthy flow.

Tank specs:
http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20design1.1.jpg

Basic Flow overview:
I want to get closed to 2000gph in my 110gal

2X 1" Standpipes @ 600 gph max apiece flowing into sump at much lower gph to reduce micro bubbles, sounds and incase one clogs. Return up back side of tank and spray out either side of overflow on SCWD ran by Quite One 4000 in sump= rated 1017GPH.

The rest of the flow will be a closed loop SCWD to opposite ends of tank
ran by Quite One 6000= 1506 gph

So with head and elbows Im thinking we are looking at an overall flow of about 1700-2000GPH. I hope.

The current design calls for 7 holes:
2X bulkheads in overflow: 2 for Durso's/stockman
3X Bulkheads in Back of tank: One on either side of overflow for sump return and one on right side for closed loop.
2X holes in each far end top to place closed loop returns through.


-Erik

 

[Gordo]

Erik,

To solve your problem you should switch the closed loop and sump returns. The close loop would come out of returns in the back wall of the tank and the sump return would dump out at the top of the tank. Does that make sense? The way you have it now you are totally dependant on the check valves to keep water in your tank in the event of a failure. They work great for a couple of months then go south from mineral buildup.

~Gordo~

 

[Macbeth417]

Gordo I considered that too, however:

The sump return is only flowing at 500gph (pushing about 1000gph but with head and split) that will not be enough from the far ends for my sps. The closed loop is pushing 1500gph, that is why it is at the far ends and the return is in the middle.
I am planning on having only 500gph through sump because that is close to the rating on my skimmer pump and anything more isn't getting anything done except some gas exchange, adding micro bubbles, making stand pipes louder and making my refugium section more turbulent.
I think it may simply come down to raising the outlets on the return and using some loc line to aim it down.
Im thinking of adding seaswirls to the closed loop returns. Should I take out the SCWD then to reduce back pressure?
-Erik

 

[Macbeth417]

I guess i could move the top down holes in and the back holes out and switch the closed loop with the return that way.

 

[H20doctor]

My suggestions is , don't drill through the tank. Run the pipes up from the back of the tank, and into the tank, thats what I did then you can run that pipe anywhere you want , drill a hole at the top for siphon power failures. I just ran mine in 2 inches and left the power heads to do the flow. When the power goes off my whole tank only drains 1 inch. Check valves are a waste of time , they will fail , clog, in about 4 months.
Make it simple not High tech I run a 4mdqsc little giant on my 100 gallon, through 1 inch pvc and I had to valve it down because its toooooo much flow for my over flow.

 

[Scooterman]

I guess i could move the top down holes in and the back holes out and switch the closed loop with the return that way.

HUH? LOL
Just bring the return holes up higher!
I don't like using checks either, I would not use them on my tank.
BTW,
I have a 100g tank, pushing around 3,100GPH, I'm fixing to add another 900GPH next week. I later plan on adding a second 1,800GPH Tunze stream, I already have 1,800GPH TUNZE stream, love it!

 

[H20doctor]

like I said , I have 4 Mdq pump 1380 gph , I have 4ea 1200 maxi jets on in each corner and one on either side of the over flow, then behind my rock one in the left corner, and one in the right corner, I have 2 rio 3100 going 24/7 you calculate the flow......

 

[Macbeth417]

Scooterman:

I wish I could afford Tunze, but I think for now Im going to have to go with closed loop and seaswirls. So should I still use the SCWD. or just let both seaswirl push water constantly???

-Erik

 

[Scooterman]

If you have the SCWD I'd use it, I liked the action mine had, too bad it stopped! :x

 

[Macbeth417]

Do people think i need a separate pump for each side of the closed loop?
I was talking to guy at LFS and he said he used to use the old quite one and whe he put it on a T it didn't push worth crap. I have looked at the flow/head charts and with the T the SCWD and common up over the tank that would be nothing once you got to the far end. So is there a stronger pump I should go with or maybe just drill each end with a seperate closed loop and put Quiet One 4000 High Hea 980 gph on each end. It will still push about 800gph at 6 feet of head and is still only $104.99 apiece. That means drilling an additional intake on the left side, but it may be worth it. Is constant flow a bad idea???? Or is putting each end on seaswirl or ocilator okay.

-Erik

 

[Macbeth417]

Scooter,
I have'nt purchased anything yet. All I have is a set of bimetal hole saws, three 1" bulkhead and two 1/2" bulkheads.

-Erik

 

[Scooterman]

Instead of two pumps, from reading in the past most people would prefer one, in that case. Dolphin makes some nice pumps that would churn up your tank like crazy, also Sequence!

 

[Macbeth417]

Yeah I was looking at the amp masters, but man are those things expensive. If I split on a T and a SCWD that is at least 6 feet of head on each side, though through the SCWD it will only be taking on one side at a time so maybe a AMP Master 2100: 2100gph @ 7' head

Here is a dual pump design:
http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20plumb%20design1.4.jpg

-Erik

 

[Katchupoy]

If you affor the sea swirls.... go buy them... the scwd I think is good for smaller tanks. I have a 50 and i have swcd on both ends (l&r side) of the tank and its not as dynamic as my 25gallon tank before.

I think the transition from one to another is too fast... so in a big tank... by the time the flow reaches the other side of the tank, it will be stopped by the othe nozzle going to the other end.

so all the actions are in the middle of the tank....

 

[Macbeth417]

TWO more designs. These two are getting closer and I think both will work, just that the second one will cost close to $500(amp master 2100 + 2X 3/4" seaswirls + 1X SCWD) and the first only $270(amp master 2100 + 2X SCWD)

http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20plumb%20design2.0.jpg
http://students.washington.edu/eanders/Tank%20plumb%20design2.1.jpg

I goofed on the second drawing a little as the only the seawirl nozzle would be below the top of the tank and not the whole unit. I would do this using thier mounting brackets. OH! and I will ditch the check valves.

-Erik