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How to Handle Opinions -- What is Yours

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o2manyfish

o2manyfish
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
188
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Hey Guys,

In trying to keep this as easy to navigate as possible RF provided a thread that could be used to post the photos and general statistics on each of the skimmers.

The question is how do people feel about the best way to handle opinions on the skimmers. Originally I thought I would post my opinions as to pros and cons of the skimmers in one thread - And leave discussion and questions regarding this for a seperate thread.

But some people have immediately been concerned that this could lead to too much emphasis being placed on my opinions. While we could append the thread with the opinions of those that stop by to hands on visit the skimmers, and then submit their thoughts - that might create too much work.

I am kind of at a loss, I am not sure what the best means is to post and discuss things so that threads are manageable, and opinions can be fairly discussed....

And I thought configuring the skimmers and dialing them in was going to be the hard part.... LOL

Dave B
 

bradreef

always kidding
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
1,620
Location
La mesa CA
maybe two or three people's opinions and we can discuss from there. with three we can see how similar the opinions are. :)
 

harper

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
2
In that thread just post the factual information. Then start a thread for each skimmer to discus opinions. Link to the opinion discussion in the factual information posts. Obviously start each thread with your opinion. So that would be maybe 12 or so opinion threads. May seem like a lot but I think each of these skimmers deserves a fully expanded pros/cons and Qs/As discussion, as does a project of this size. hth
 

dgasmd

Fragologist Magnus
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
473
Location
Florida
Dave:

Doing a comparision of skimmers and having you post your opinions sort of defeat the purpose. The best thing would be for you to simply describe and show pictures of what you have done, how, for how long, with what, etc. Let the reader form their own opinion. If you want, at the end you can throw in your personal opnion and bias as to which you personally like and why, but at least it leaves the door open for the rest of us to form our opinion based on the facts. Sanjay and even JB_NY have done this in their previous lighting test and I thought it was great. Just an opinion here, no pun intended.
 

Ed Hahn

Life is A Highway...
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
3,955
Location
Kennewick, Wa
dgasmd said:
Dave:

Doing a comparision of skimmers and having you post your opinions sort of defeat the purpose. The best thing would be for you to simply describe and show pictures of what you have done, how, for how long, with what, etc. Let the reader form their own opinion. If you want, at the end you can throw in your personal opnion and bias as to which you personally like and why, but at least it leaves the door open for the rest of us to form our opinion based on the facts. Sanjay and even JB_NY have done this in their previous lighting test and I thought it was great. Just an opinion here, no pun intended.
I want to agree with above. Pictures of performance side by side, comparing time of running,, ease of set up, ease to maintain, cost comparison, etc. Then it would let each person form their own oppinion.
I hope this helps,
Ed
 

forsaken541

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
146
Location
Spokane, WA
Its back to the KISS principle. Post Factual results from the head to heads and then we can do what we do.......... Debate and Decide. I do appreciate this though as I will be looking to upgrade my tank and move into a larger capacity skimmer.
"And the truth shall set you free"
Erik
 

DonW

R.I.P.
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Messages
8,753
Location
Tacoma, WA
I agree that everyones opinion needs to be kept in another thread. On the other hand I would like to here yours. Since I and others have never owned a high end skimmer, you opinion should help in the future. The little things like how easy they are to adjust, will they work once the cup gets dirty, do they stop working when you stick your hand in the tank. I'm sure they are all fine skimmers, but it they are a major pain to keep going I'd like to know about that also.

Thanks
Don
 

o2manyfish

o2manyfish
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
188
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Let me toss in an example of the type of opinions so you guys have an idea of what kind of information I referring to:

Dave B Opinions on Skimmer "SuperTurboSkim 3B"

a) Top of skimmer too small to get hand inside to clean
b) Mounted Venturi valve makes 1 handed adjustments easier
c) Skimmer collection cup too small
d) Construction, solid but not finished nicely
e) No micro bubbles in effluent
f) Riser tube too long and narrow to be able to easily clean
g) Skimmer requires daily adjustments to maintain good daily performance
h) Collection cup union to difficult to manipulate if in a closed space

Here are an example of some of the type of opinions I have come across in playing with the skimmers.

These are not opinions that Skimmer B is a Better Skimmer than Skimmer A, just usuage characteristics I notice because I am getting the most amount of time with the skimmers.

Dave B
 

VegasMike

RC Transferee
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
104
Location
Las Vegas
I like.

They are not opinions as to the quality of the skimmer, but more to the usefulness of the skimmer. Those skimmer qualities are better suited to opinions.

For example, having used both an MR4 and a Deltec AP1003, I could say, without a doubt, that the Deltec is much easier to clean. My knock on it is that there is not a drain outlet on the skimmer to drain the main body easily so that the pumps can be taken off for cleaning.
 

gobie

dave the gobie
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
366
Location
Auburn
It Is A Very Good Question On Opinion Of Skimmers, But I Also Feel That Keeping To Facts Is Going To Be Your Best Bet. Jus Keep A Log Of Things Being Impartial Is The Best Bet. Then Let Others Come To Their Conclusion Upon The Info Provided.
 

mojoreef

Reef Keeper
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
7,530
Location
Sumner
Dave here are some thoughts. What I wanted to have in regards to this test. The test data, pictures and even an itemized observations as you listed above should happen in the thread that is locked and that only you and RF have access to. I think your observation should be clear cut and stick to things you have noticed while setting up and running them. I also think you should make a standard list for observations so that each skimmer is critiqued the same way and for the same things. This way all units get judged the same way.
Keeping the locked thread locked allows for a purely informational thread with out the clutter of discussion and debate. Beyond that one thread I would say the balance of the forum should be used for what ever the members or viewers wish to discuss or ask about the test. Tis would also include the makers of the skimmers. I would suggest to all to feel free to create many threads and not just one really really long one, as most folks don't have time to go through 50 pages to find all the questions. I think this will server all people that wish to follow and participate in the thread and results.
One last thing. Everyone should remember that this test and the results of this test could be picked at forever for one thing or another and I don't think that is going to get anyone anywhere. So please take the test for what it is worth and what it tells you, don't worry about any one persons opinion or thoughts. At Reef Frontiers we like to lay it all out for viewing and let the individual make their own choices. This skimmer testing should be viewed the same way.

let have some fun with it and take from it what we want.

Mike
 

Ger

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
9
Location
California
I have posted this in the other thread before, but this one is more appropriate.

Maybe someone can consolidate all the factors to be tested so we can come up with a list. We could then rate each skimmer on a scale (e.g. 1-5, with 1-poor and 5-Excellent) instead of a "black or white" decision. This would make it easier to rate multiple things without considering just one facet of performance, allowing everyone to choose what's important to them.

Here are some suggestions just to start:

Color of skimmate (clear, light, medium, dark, black)
Volume of skimmate (in ml's over a certain period of time)
Power draw of pump(s)
Size (l x w x h)
Air flow
Water flow
Initial adjustment
Ease of use after initial set up
Maintenance required (e.g. cleaning time & how hard to clean, etc.)
Foam consistency
Bubble size
Noise factor (pump and air)
Price point
Warranty
Features (if any)
etc....

And, a summary of your (and other people who are stopping by to see them) opinion.
 

Konadog

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
20
Location
Long Beach CA
Dave, maybe making a form to fill out so that when people come to visit, we can fill in our observations, and it can be compiled when the testing is complete.
 

Oshady2000

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
4
Location
Miami,FL
I have an Aquavia Multiskimmer is it any good?
i have a 46 gal Bow front, with a Millenium 3000 and about 45lbs of LR
and green star polyps, and Xenia with four fish.
one maroon clown,three fairy wrasse.
Just want to know if the skimmer would be any good
 

forsaken541

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
146
Location
Spokane, WA
I used that skimmer on my tank for about 6 months. It worked very well and pulled alot of skimmate out but I did have two negative comments.
1. not enough flow though it
2. the pump gave out and shorted into my tank shocking me afetr 6 months.
Erik
 
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