Idiot's Guide to Making & Dosing 2 Part

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Boomer

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in case something eats Sulfate!

Well, in NSW there is 2,700 ppm Sulfate and that is allot to eat already. The reason behind using both its to keep ions at more normal ratios, as they are in NSW.
 

OldFishMan

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Boomer;

Wow --- you really must not like me to find fault in everything I post.

Do you absolutely know for a fact that nothing in my tanks, with my flawed way of keeping my tanks, and my flawed way of picking and mixing species that Sulfate in one form or the other is not consumed?

In Randy Holmes-Farley's calculations --- which I cannot duplicate for lack of knowledge --- Sulfate was slightly depleted without supplimentation.

Some people use Epson Salt and I just wanted to reassure them that it is probably Okay!

OFM
 
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ziggy

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So a combo of chloride & epson salt is the preferred solution? Not being a smart A--, but how does it make a difference, and what can I look for to notice the difference? ie: the fish are eating more, or corals grow faster or better colored? No more water changes for life(j/k)
thanks
chad #2
 

Boomer

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OHF
Nowhere, in any of Randy's article does he or anyone else on the net or in books advise in any way to supplement sulfate as needed ion. As far as Randy goes, he is one of my best friend an would agree with my statement 100 %. I also read many of his articles before they go to print. That link on my sig led's to our chem. forum on RC, where Randy and I are. If you read any of his articles on this issue you should know that he shows large accumulation of sulfate and chloride over time when using these kinds of additives and the reason behind ~ 30 WC / month. He and I both recommend the use in DIY of both chloride and sulfates and not just one is a good choice. You need to READ what my post says. Randy uses only kalk in his tank and never sup's sulfate for the need of needing sulfate.



Do you absolutely know for a fact that nothing in my tanks, with my flawed way of keeping my tanks, and my flawed way of picking and mixing species that Sulfate in one form or the other is not consumed?

You see to be confused. Did you not understand my post ? What did I say ?

Well, in NSW there is 2,700 ppm Sulfate and that is allot to eat already. The reason behind using ***both*** is to keep ions at more normal ratios, as they are in NSW. = sulfate suppliment.........see it NOW. Don't try anymore to put some kind of spin on my post,as they tick me off.


If you want to have discussions then get you facts straight and in order. And READ what the post says, without READING into it. Don't be a post hole digger.

Well, in NSW there is 2,700 ppm Sulfate and that is allot to eat already. The reason behind using both its to keep ions at more normal ratios, as they are in NSW.

It has been evident by most I think, by your own posts, you started the attacking, mostly on the articles I posted for people to READ and learn things. Most of those are articles by Randy and as all know when you attack Randy you attack me. If that was not the case then lets start over fresh, as you have had some very good posts :D
 

Boomer

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ziggy

So a combo of chloride & epson salt is the preferred solution?

Yes, that is correct as it keeps the chloride and sulfate in balance. If we all has a choice we would hope that all could take care of the Alk, and Ca++ demands by just adding Kalk. However, We are kind of lost for Mg++. as we only really have two choices, Mag chloride and/or sulfate

Not being a smart A--, but how does it make a difference, and what can I look for to notice the difference? ie: the fish are eating more, or corals grow faster or better colored?

There is no way of knowing for sure as one can not measure sulfate but can, if they wish, measure chloride and use that as a guide. A ~ 30 WC / m will keep things pretty much in line. Randy has worked out some theoretical equation to try and assist one on what is or may be taking place here......

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part
Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php


No more water changes for life(j/k)

I hope one does not mean that as there is no black hole in a tank where unwanted ions go through and end up some where in space and time:D And the same thing can be said of the sand bed and more so.
 

Willy

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Something I have noticed.

I have 30 gals of NSW mixed to 35ppt, I use Randy's Recipe #1 to raise the alkalinity of my NSW to 9.2dkh. What I have noticed is, after a few days the alkalinity falls back down to pre dosing levels. Why would the alkalinity level fall just sitting in a storage container? Is baking soda not a good way to raise the alkalinity level of stored water? If not, what would be a good alternative to raise AND maintain my stored NSW at the alkalinity levels I want?

P.S. As I stated earlier I use Randy's 2 part to dose both of my tanks and the alkalinity is kept at 9.2dkh ..I use seachem reef salt, the calcium tests at 500 (salifert)


Thanks
 
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Boomer

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Next time try to also measure the Calcium of that storage container to see if it has fallen also. Also, what has happens to the pH during this time and what is the Magnesium level ? If these are normal the container may be collecting organic acids and the buffer is trying to neutralize them. So, is it covered ? Where is it stored and where is the air coming from ?
 

Willy

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Next time try to also measure the Calcium of that storage container to see if it has fallen also. Also, what has happens to the pH during this time and what is the Magnesium level ? If these are normal the container may be collecting organic acids and the buffer is trying to neutralize them. So, is it covered ? Where is it stored and where is the air coming from ?
Measured the calcium after the water has set for a few days and it was approx. 490ppm. PH appears to stay between 8.0-8.1, before and after adding the supplement to raise alk, but my PH test has expired so that may be inaccurate. I don't have a magnesium test so that went unmeasured. The water is in a covered brute trash can, that I have been using for 6 months or more for water changes. What air are you asking about? I have the container in my laundry room. Id assume it gets decent air flow in there. I switched to the seachem salt due to some test numbers I saw over on RC, I was hoping to not have to dose anything to my water change water.
 

Boomer

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490 is pretty high. That tells me that more than likely it was higher and you had some abiotic precip. Just a drop of the Calcium of 20 ppm will drop the Alk 2.8 dKH in this type of chemistry. What is hapening is the kinetics of the water, with these levels, is dropping it to a level where it is more stable.

If you go here and look 1/2 way down the page at Omega values you will see what I mean.

Ω = 1 (risky: dissolution of aragonite begins here)

Calcium and Alkalinity Balance Issues
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php
 
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Willy

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Thanks for the help and the info...I was beginning to think I was losing my mind because the alk kept dropping.

Thanks again.........
 

Boomer

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Yah, you would probably notice a drop more so than a drop in 20 ppm Ca++, as test kits can have that much "noise" in Ca++.
 
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SaltyDog2

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Kalkwasser

I've been using the first two parts of the Randy's two part now for 4 days and am already seeing new growth. Have three questions...Was wondering if I should still be using Kakwasser in my top off water, can I add the two parts at the same time, and since I can't find Dead Sea Mag can I continue to adjust magnesium with my supply of Reef Advantage Magnesium? These probably sound like stupid basic questions but I get confused easily! Thanks for the help.
 

kgross

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You can continue adding kalk with no problems, it is pretty cheap.

You do not want to add both parts at the same time. Until they are mixed into the water, you will have a very high calcium/alk in the area of dosing and if both are dosed together in the same area you can get a biotic precipitation of calcium carbonite.

Any of the mag supplements will work.
 

SaltyDog2

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Thanks Kim

Good info...might be why I am getting a powdery film on the water surface (been adding at the same time). I am sure happy with this recipe...1st weeks test shows that my Calcium and Alkalinity are spot on. 460 and 10dkh I did adjust my mag from 1300 to 1400.
 

Darthv247

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