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Kalkwasser Rip Off

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reefer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
136
Location
Olympia, WA
A month ago I started using a kalkwaser drip. Cost of kalwasser was $12.99 for a small jar. I just bought a case of pickling lime for $24.00. the case contained 12 jars that were about 1/3 bigger than the kalkwasser jar. :shock: The aquarium supply manufacturers must think we are all stupid when they charge the prices they do.
 

jasontatro

Wiseguy
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
177
Location
West Seattle
Well, many reefers don't use pickling lime because technically is not as pure as kalkwassrer. I know alot of people have used it with no ill effects, but you're gonna pay the difference between laboratory grade and food grade.
 

reefer

Well-known member
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Jan 25, 2004
Messages
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Olympia, WA
How does one define pure? I figure if it's pure enough for me to consume, it's pure enough for for my tank. Some people go as far as using construction grade lime that is used for making cement without a problem.
 

AussieReef

New member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Messages
4
Location
New South Wales , Australia
In Australia plenty of reefers use the cheap builders limes.

Just look for the more pure grades.

most of the impurities dont dissolve or settle on the bottom and is fine since you only use the water itself.
people have used for many years with no ill effects.
 

Gordo

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Jun 27, 2003
Messages
398
Location
Olympia, WA
reefer said:
A month ago I started using a kalkwaser drip. Cost of kalwasser was $12.99 for a small jar. I just bought a case of pickling lime for $24.00. the case contained 12 jars that were about 1/3 bigger than the kalkwasser jar. :shock: The aquarium supply manufacturers must think we are all stupid when they charge the prices they do.
Where did you find it? I've never been able to find it around here.

Thanks
 

Zephrant

Engineer
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
120
Location
Spokane, WA
Keep in mind that there are plenty of things you can eat, that are undesirable in a reef tank.

Sometimes the Mrs. Wages has iron in it- I've read reports of the magnetic stirrer bars picking up particles.

Mrs. Wages definitely leaves behind more undissolveable material in my experience- Means you need to clean your unit more often, as it builds up. Don't let it age too much either- Old lime tends to not dissolve very well at all.

I have been using Mrs. Wages, but I may try something else next time, to avoid the undissolveable remains.

Zeph
 

Tsadik

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
22
Location
NY
"REEFER" You are saying pickling lime is pure for you that means must be good for reef tank.Are you sure?! I use RO/DI water which is so clean that's not good for humans to drink but is excellent for my reef tank.
If you started this hobby I just hope you have realized this is not cheap hobby.
Don't try to go away with some staff just because is cheap.IMO purity and quality counts all the way

Happy reefing
 

mojoreef

Reef Keeper
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
7,530
Location
Sumner
The big difference beween lab/analytical grade and bulk or food grade is impurities and alot of them. These items will build up in your system and will enter the food chain. Most all metals and simular are easly bound up by bacteria and chelators, form thier it is easy for them to move up the chain. How much and how quickly is based on the ammount used and the time in which it is in use.
For some folks this doesnt mean to much fo others it does.


Mike
 

reedman

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
3,255
Location
Mukilteo, WA
IMO the Mrs Wages is fine. Like Zeph stated, you will have to clean the reactor (if you use one) a little more often and their may be a little more left over crap to clean out. The differences are purity and price. Some are OK with paying 2-3 times the price to get purity. I for one am not, but I don't knock those that do. If I had disposable income that I could pour into my tank, I would probably consider a higher purity Kalk (but still not the aquarium stuff...the label jacks the price up alone). It's your tank. You have the info now to make an educated decision.
 

dnjan

alveopora
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
1,585
Location
Seattle
Zephrant said:
Don't let it age too much either- Old lime tends to not dissolve very well at all.
Zeph
Lime (calcium hydroxide) will absorb carbon dioxide out of the air to form calcium carbonate (low solubility). If you have a large container of lime, it may be better to put it into smaller, closed containers so you only expose a small amount at a time to carbon dioxide in the air.
 

mojoreef

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Sumner
Table 4. Typical Chemical Analysis of Food Grade Calcium Oxide
Si = 0.35%
CaO = 98.0%
LOI = 0.50%
Magnesium & Alkali Salts = 1.0%
Fluoride = 75 ppm
Lead = <0.5 ppm
Arsenic = <1.0 ppm
Acid Insoluble Substances = 0.20%
Heavy Metals = 2 ppm
Al = 0.10%
Fe= 0.04%
S = 0.01%
CO2 = 0.40%
P = 50 ppm
Mn = 12 ppm
Ca = 69.97%
Crystalline Silica = <0.1

So if you had a 100 gallon tank and you dripped 2 gallons a day you could be adding up to 250 ppb of total heavy metals and 60 ppb of lead and 124500 ppb of Alluminium additions per year. Those numbers are pretty astronomic when compared to NSW. Plus with most analytical grade kalk its calcium oxide so you can disolve more into water giving you a more concentrated kalk. For me I dose about 10 gallons a day,so not a direction I want to take.

Anyway lots of folks do does food grade, this was just meant to show you a picture of way some of us dont.


MIke
 

reefer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
136
Location
Olympia, WA
Tsadik said:
"REEFER" You are saying pickling lime is pure for you that means must be good for reef tank.Are you sure?! I use RO/DI water which is so clean that's not good for humans to drink but is excellent for my reef tank.
If you started this hobby I just hope you have realized this is not cheap hobby.
Don't try to go away with some staff just because is cheap.IMO purity and quality counts all the way

Happy reefing
I have been in the hobby since I was about 5 yrs old. No I'm not scientific and can not quote scientific formulas. I use pure well water directly into my tank and have been doing it for 30 plus years with very good results. The USGS tested my well water some twenty some years ago and selected my well because I had one of the few wells that they could sample the water before it entered the presure tank. They siaid my water was some of the best they had ever tested as far as heavy metals etc. I do what works and thus far it has always worked. I have never done regular water changes and like I said it works well for me and everything does well. I feel it's like buying a Cadillac or a Chevy. You can pay ten times as much to maintain and pay for your Cadillac parts which by the way are the same parts you put in your Chevy but they know you are willing to pay and they charge you accordingly. It's not always you pay for what you get. I've had 50 some years of aquaria with very little failure.
 

jasontatro

Wiseguy
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
177
Location
West Seattle
Congratulations on your success. But I think the argument started when you said that people were being ripped off by paying higher prices for kalk. Your Cadillac/Chevy analogy doesn't hold up, because in the case of kalk/lime, we are clearly not talking about the same thing. As Mike has pointed out, pickling lime has major deviations from kalkwasser. So, I think it is safe to say that you get what you pay for. It's just that in this case some are willing to pay less and get less.
 

Tsadik

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
22
Location
NY
Here we go.Do good research on product and get as many informations you can before you add the stuff to your tank.
 

mojoreef

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Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
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Location
Sumner
I know plenty of folks that use food grade, and tiers nothing wrong with it, but its always best to know both sides to the story.

good thread folks


Mike
 

dnjan

alveopora
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
1,585
Location
Seattle
Four pounds of ESV kalk is $18 mailorder (plus a few bucks shipping). Lasts me for more than a year. Not one of my large cost factors.
 

reefer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
136
Location
Olympia, WA
I just got a pm from a new reefer who wanted more info from me as I had been doing this for so long. I told him to read posts like this and others. Look at both sides and do what works best for your situation. There is an argument for each side. This is a constantly evolving hobby. Ten to twenty years ago most of the people on this board could not keep a healthy specimen alive for any length of time (poor husbandry, poor salt mixes, no RO/DI, etc. My subject line may have seemed to be abrasive to some but it got people engaged and throwing out some very good points.
"Listen to both sides and do what works for your situation."
 
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