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refugium substrate?

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LS1 WS6

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Dec 18, 2004
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24
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Spokane
Let see if I can get some advise here. I have a 40 gallon that has been running for some time. I just built a new sump and refugium for it. The refugium will be lit by 2 28 watt PC lights. The dimensions for the refugium are small, 13" long 10 1/2 wide and 16" tall. There will be about 13 to 14" of water in it.

What substrate would you go with in this case?
 

wrightme43

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Jul 1, 2004
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bowling green ky
Me personally I would go with a live sand bed of 4-6 inchs. I would grow gracilla or another non calupera species of algae. Looks like your a fan of hot rods. LOL. I live in Bowling Green KY, home of the Corvette. That is just kind of a general idea, tell more about your system, goals, and what you keep, and people will be able to help you narrow down what you want, and how to set up your refugium to provide the best return on investment. HTH Steve
 

The R/C Man

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Feb 20, 2004
Messages
423
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Spokane WA
Hey!

I have a small sump/fuge made from a 10 gallon tank. I use a couple inches of mineral mud as the substrate of choice. The mineral mud is supposed to be high in minerals etc creating an excellant platform macro algae growth. I am not convinced a deep sand bed will not crash eventually.
 

wes

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Jul 24, 2004
Messages
159
Location
Renton Wa
Deep substrate

The only deep substrate tank I've heard be being successful in the long-term is a quite large, I have only heard bad results in long-term of more average size takes. There's a lot a controversy on whether that is true or not. Some people in this hobby tend to say things on faith-based assumptions and you really have to take what anybody says with a grain of salt , unless you really know the person know what their talking about. The fact is in this hobby you have to weigh the good with the bad. In the this case I believe that there is a lot more bad things that can come of having a deep sand bed than good.
 

The Apprentice

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Apr 12, 2004
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Umatilla,OR
Advice from a Ford Boy!

Hi LS1 I have 2 Reefugium's one is a Ecosystems unit with the pantened Miracle Mud check out the link: I have had mine up for 6 months and have been happy with it I hope the info will help..Jeff

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/reefugium.html And this Link:
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/tyree1.html

I also have a little CPR hang on refugium and I have it with Crushed coral and have had more trouble with Cyanobacteria with it ...Jeff


LS1 WS6 said:
Let see if I can get some advise here. I have a 40 gallon that has been running for some time. I just built a new sump and refugium for it. The refugium will be lit by 2 28 watt PC lights. The dimensions for the refugium are small, 13" long 10 1/2 wide and 16" tall. There will be about 13 to 14" of water in it.

What substrate would you go with in this case?
 

wrightme43

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
4,355
Location
bowling green ky
Jeff that is a really cool refugium. Did you build it? I like the way it looks. I understand completely that some people disagree with the deep sand beds. I personaly have never had a problem with them. On the what does it add to your tank question. This is again only my opinion. I believe they add over 20,000,000 nitrafying and denitrafying bacteria per pound. The aragonite dissolves at ph 8.2 and adds trace elements that the corals need to grow. They provide a place for spagetti worms to proliferate which breed and feed the corals. They in my mind provide for more area for life to exist. If you plan on keeping SPS corals they may not be the best idea. If your going to keep LPS or softies I think a deep sand bed is the way to go. On the flip side of the coin. Here is a photo of a SPS, Clam, Anemone tank up and running for many many years with a 55 gallon DSB refugium plumbed in line. It is thriving, has a very high fish load and is consistantly stable and healthy. I have a hard time beliving that sand beds are the terrible monster that sometimes they are made out to be. I think that sometimes they are givin the blame for other problems, because the results of other problems are seen in the sand bed first. Just my opinions.
 

The Apprentice

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Location
Umatilla,OR
Eco systems refugium

Thanks Steve that Is a Eco systems refugium they are sold as a Kit check my other post I have the Link to the MFG's site here is the info on mine:
Reefugium 200M
Saltwater
Reefugium 200 for up to 300 gallon tanks - Includes 36"L x 8"w x 8"h acrylic Reefugium Box, 20 pounds Miracle Mud, (2) 13 watt PC light, pump, plumbing - Ready To Run
cost with lights and MM $ 500.00
Have a great week end ...Jeff :)



wrightme43 said:
Jeff that is a really cool refugium. Did you build it? I like the way it looks. I understand completely that some people disagree with the deep sand beds. I personaly have never had a problem with them. On the what does it add to your tank question. This is again only my opinion. I believe they add over 20,000,000 nitrafying and denitrafying bacteria per pound. The aragonite dissolves at ph 8.2 and adds trace elements that the corals need to grow. They provide a place for spagetti worms to proliferate which breed and feed the corals. They in my mind provide for more area for life to exist. If you plan on keeping SPS corals they may not be the best idea. If your going to keep LPS or softies I think a deep sand bed is the way to go. On the flip side of the coin. Here is a photo of a SPS, Clam, Anemone tank up and running for many many years with a 55 gallon DSB refugium plumbed in line. It is thriving, has a very high fish load and is consistantly stable and healthy. I have a hard time beliving that sand beds are the terrible monster that sometimes they are made out to be. I think that sometimes they are givin the blame for other problems, because the results of other problems are seen in the sand bed first. Just my opinions.
 

LS1 WS6

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
24
Location
Spokane
Hey everyone,

Thacks for all the replies. I am not new to the hobby of reef keeping. I have been doing it for about 7 - 8 years now. I have always used a berlin system. I am good with building things out of acrylic so I built my own system. I made two separate sumps to maximize the small amount of space I have under my stand. The fuge is on the right, sump on left and the return is in the middle. The fuge is taller than the sump by 3 inches. The water will gravity feed back into the sump through a bulkhead fitting with two screens on it.

The tank has been up for some time and is fully established. My big reason for the fuge is the addition of a purple tang. I know it is a small tank for a tang, but he is small right now. Some day I am going to buy or build a 120 or so.

I am thinking of putting spagehtti algae in the fuge. I want the most biodiverse enviorment that I can have in such a small space. A large population of copepods ect. would be great. I will trim the algae to supplement feed the tang.

I was wondering about the GARF Grunge? I know that all it is, is left overs from the bottom of live rock holding containers. It sounds like it might be good.

The Miracle mud does not look bad except it is very $$$$$$$$$$$ and you have to change 1/2 of it every 6 months or so.

My tank now has about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of oolitic sand in it now. I have had no problems with sand beds in the past. I think they are beneficial and look more natural.

Anyway, keep the advise coming and thanks for the replies.

Oh ya, I love cars. I have a 2000 Ram Air Trans Am!!
 
Last edited:

The R/C Man

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Feb 20, 2004
Messages
423
Location
Spokane WA
I agree with the cost. That stuff is not cheap. The 115 gallon sump/fuge going under my 360 gallon will be a sugar sized sand mixed with the mineral mud. Another reason I went with the mud is for its granular size. Much finer than any sand you can purchase. I have been running my original mud for 20 months or so. I am not planning to change it. Since the tank is established and the clean up crew keeps everything in check I am not worried about the loss minerals in the mud. The nutrients in the water are plenty to proliferate macro algae growth..... :D
 

gehidore

wik, pioneerwest madman
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
120
Location
near the pine trees (chehalis WA)
I would use a mixture of 50% calcium carbonate based substrate and 50% live sand *with* a caulerpa based algae ( some claim they will "go sexual" and kill all your animals) but I nor anyone I know have *EVER* had this happen. Caulerpa is great for toxin remover IMO.

My refugium is made from a rubbermaid container from wally world with an 8$ bulkhead, water is pumped up and gravity feeds back. Inside I have a few choice peices of rock, caulerpa, and an 8x8x6 grid of "egg crate".

this is the "how to" I used:

www.anomalum.com/frontier/refugium/refugiumstepone.jpeg

www.anomalum.com/frontier/refugium/refugiumsteptwo.jpeg

www.anomalum.com/frontier/refugium/refugiumstepthree.jpeg

www.anomalum.com/frontier/refugium/refugiumstepfour.jpeg

www.anomalum.com/frontier/refugium/refugiumstepfive.jpeg

The howto was once in existance but since then the domain has been unregistered, all credit goes to the original Author.
 
Last edited:

LS1 WS6

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
24
Location
Spokane
gehidore said:
I would use a mixture of 50% calcium carbonate based substrate and 50% live sand *with* a caulerpa based algae ( some claim they will "go sexual" and kill all your animals) but I nor anyone I know have *EVER* had this happen. Caulerpa is great for toxin remover IMO.

Ya, I hear alot about caulerpa doing that. Has anyone here ever expierianced it? If so what happened.
 

The R/C Man

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Feb 20, 2004
Messages
423
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Spokane WA
I have a combination of caulerpas as well as spaghetti algae and some halmidea which has gone sexual. Xenia is a great nutrient export and I have that in my sump as well.....
 

kevinpo

Expert
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Jul 1, 2003
Messages
2,287
Location
Spokane Valley, WA
I have had several species go sexual. It makes the water milky. It really depends on what the ratio of plants to water volume as to whether or not it will kill your livestock. I have not lost any livestock as a result of it going sexual. I use both DSB and bare-bottom refugiums and I can't say I've seen much difference if you put some pieces of live rock with the plants. My favorite alga is Chaetomorpha crassa.

HTH,
Kevin
 

Frankie

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May 9, 2004
Messages
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Location
Charleston,SC
The Apprentice said:
Hi LS1 I have 2 Reefugium's one is a Ecosystems unit with the pantened Miracle Mud check out the link: I have had mine up for 6 months and have been happy with it I hope the info will help..Jeff

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/reefugium.html And this Link:
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/tyree1.html

I also have a little CPR hang on refugium and I have it with Crushed coral and have had more trouble with Cyanobacteria with it ...Jeff
Thats a cool refugium! good job :)
 

gobyit

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Messages
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Location
Vermont
If you were to leave the light on 24/7 over the refug. that should help to prevent the caulerpas from going sexual.
 

gobyit

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Mar 19, 2005
Messages
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Location
Vermont
We had a problem with them going sexual at the store I manage, we would come in in the morning and the whole tank would be murkey, so we started keeping the lights on and have not had a problem with them since. Sooo if it aint broke don't fix it.
 

gehidore

wik, pioneerwest madman
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Messages
120
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near the pine trees (chehalis WA)
gobyit said:
We had a problem with them going sexual at the store I manage, we would come in in the morning and the whole tank would be murkey, so we started keeping the lights on and have not had a problem with them since. Sooo if it aint broke don't fix it.
I would leave them on always as you said.
 
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