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Some Plumbing for Vickie

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mojoreef

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Ok Vickie here is a first draft.

Concept is to have 1 overflow drain, on one side with a 1 1/2 BA as the drain with a duraso in it. The opposite side will be a sleeve to house the return line. Personally I think it should be in with the drain overflow. On your oceanic sump, leave the container in but gut the unit. Toss the top plate with the two inputs and replace it with an acrylic plate with one 1 1/2 BH dead center. On the inside of that attach a filter sock holder for when you want to polish the water (link attached). Put your skimmer in the sump between the baffles and the box compartment. As per a return pump look for something that is going to give you about 1000 gph and use it for surface braking flow only.
On the closed loop the concept is to have a Motorized ball valve, but instead of side to side lets go top to bottom. The water will come from the two 1 1/2 inch BH's drilled inline to a point where you can access them for cleaning. they drain down into the CL pump, form their the pump goes directly into the MBV. From one side of the MBV use 1 1/2 flex to bring the water to the upper 1 1/2 manifold at a Tee point then their will be 6 out puts. I have more out puts up here as it is better to have a little less flow but more flexibility for coverage area. The other end of the MBV goes to a lower manifold about 2 inches above the bottom of the tank. Again it attached to a Tee and then spreads out to the other outputs. The out puts are tee's that are reduced to 3/4 fitting to go into the 3/4 bulkheads (the ends of the manifolds are elbows) on the inside of the tank on the outputs are 3/4 loclines. On the lower loclines attach Y's to each output to double them up and then fans on the ends of them (look to nikkis tank for concept) .The reason their are only 4 outputs on the bottom as you will need more force to blow detritus off the bottom. This flow pattern should give you a very good random pattern, with a lot of flow blowing the detritus to the coast to coast overflow. Anyway thats a first draft, we can get into details after you or the hubby have any questions.



here is the disk I was referring to


Mike
 

VickiG

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Wowie Kazowie Mike. That is so awesome! You are the MAN! Okay, couple of questions: (I know YOU know what you are talking about - but I may not fully comprehend being plumbing-impaired as I am, so not questioning your idea, just making sure I understand!)
1) You said "Concept is to have 1 overflow drain" - Is one OF drain and one RTN from the sump what you are saying? I thought (read: Have been told) you had to have two of each in case one got plugged up - by a wayward turbo snail or such - is that not really necessary as long as you have safeguards to shut down tank/sump if any drains/returns fail?
2) "The opposite side will be a sleeve to house the return line. Personally I think it should be in with the drain overflow." If you think that is a better way to go, let's do it - tank isn't built yet so we have options. If you don't think the extra distance to travel left-to-right, from RTN end of sump back to the OF at other end of tank will be a problem, go with it.
3) "Put your skimmer in the sump between the baffles and the box compartment." - okay, we took the plastic trickle filter box out of the sump - basically gutted it - only thing left is the bubble baffle there in the middle - can't remove it. (or maybe we can, but if we do that, just have an expensive glass box with two holes in one end and prob should sell/take back to LFS and start over w/custom-made acrylic sump, as you suggested yesterday on phone - ???) If we keep sump, can we put the skimmer all the way to the end, where the filter box was? Hoping to leave room for in-sump refugium - or is that a bad idea? (again, maybe having custom built acrylic sump/'fuge - more baffes especially - is a better way to go?)
4) "On the inside of that attach a filter sock holder for when you want to polish the water (link attached).- is the filter sock holder that white disk pictured at bottom? Or were you sending me to a url that I don't see? (Never seen one, so just don't know if that is what I'm looking at.)
5) "From one side of the MBV use 1 1/2 flex" - is there a reason for flex vs rigid here? Just curious 'cuz Darrel (hubby) saw the flex that came w/sump and said he'd toss it - didn't trust the flex stuff that much - maybe he is wrong there - just wondering?
6) "The water will come from the two 1 1/2 inch BH's drilled inline to a point where you can access them for cleaning. they drain down into the CL pump, form their the pump goes directly into the MBV. From one side of the MBV use 1 1/2 flex to bring the water to the upper 1 1/2 manifold at a Tee point" - Okay, now I got a bit confused between text and drawing - Guess that the two CL drains go into CL pump (drain lines not shown, but I assume just some lines are missing/misplaced in your drawying, cuz the pump looks like it goes to lower manifold in drawing - my 'guess' is that that blue line should be from MBV to lower manifold not from pump to manifold, right???. If so, then I follow everything after that (are ya shocked?! :shock: ) as far as flow pattern, number of outputs, locline (I've looked at Nikki's and think I can do that - just point me to where I get the locline stuff) - this all looks great! :D

Hey, only SIX questions so far - a new record low, huh? (after my novel PMs!). I am so AMPED - this really is a great design, Mike - you are the coolest!!! Thanks - will watch for your replies as well as no-doubt lots of input/questions/comments from other reefers! THANK YOU!!!! You are my hero, man!

Vicki
 

mojoreef

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Is one OF drain and one RTN from the sump what you are saying? I thought (read: Have been told) you had to have two of each in case one got plugged up - by a wayward turbo snail or such - is that not really necessary as long as you have safeguards to shut down tank/sump if any drains/returns fail?
Vickie thats what you asked for?? you said you wanted just one on one side. The drain hole is 1 1/2 inches it would have to be one hell of a snail, lol. Personally I would perfer two full overflows, one on each side.
If you don't think the extra distance to travel left-to-right, from RTN end of sump back to the OF at other end of tank will be a problem, go with it.
You just get the proper pump that can give you around a 1000 gph at the head.
can we put the skimmer all the way to the end, where the filter box was? Hoping to leave room for in-sump refugium -
I would have left the box in and used it for a sock holder. Putting the skimmer in the very first compartment will mean that the water is going to land on it, that could be messy, but I guess you could get it close.
On the refugium I would go with a satalite tank.
is the filter sock holder that white disk pictured at bottom? Or were you sending me to a url that I don't see? (
Yes it is. it screws into a 1 1/2 threaded nipple.
is there a reason for flex vs rigid here?
The flex Darrel saw was probibly cheap stuff, the stuff I am refering to is flexable pvc and it is very thick and durable and glues just like pvc. The reason I am saying to use it as we need to bend around the race of the stand and then out the back and we cross the lower manifold.

Ahh damm I made a booboo on the drawing, you are correct the pipe should cme off the other end of the MBV and yes the drains are to go to the input of the pump


Mike
 

VickiG

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mojoreef said:
Vickie thats what you asked for?? you said you wanted just one on one side. ...Personally I would perfer two full overflows, one on
I would have left the box in and used it for a sock holder.... Putting the skimmer in the very first compartment will mean that the water is going to land on it, that could be messy, but I guess you could get it close.
On the refugium I would go with a satalite tank.
Mike
Ok, Mike, sorry - that is kinda what I said, you are right...my thought was actually two overflows and two returns, but instead of one in each corner, both OF in one corner, both RTNs in other...but only because of this darn sump! It has 2 OF holes - inputs, in one end; 2 RTN holes in other, so I thought there'd be a major crossover going L-R. But if that isn't a problem and having both drains on one side of tank, both returns on other is more of a problem than having pipes crossing over under the tank, then heck - do watever is best to get your two OF and two RTN. Sorry for the confusion - this sump is probably gotta go! If we keep this sump, we can keep the black 'filter box' in the end for media socks, but it takes up about 8", then we can put skimmer like you suggest. Satellite 'fuge may be a problem - where to stuff that under the stand when the Oceanic sump takes up all but about 10" on either end. Will show hubby the plans and talk about taking the sump back to LFS if they'll take it - then we can have custom acrylic sump built by IAP to 'match' the tank and get rid of a bunch of the problems we're talking about. Okay, everything else looks good, makes sense. Let us decide about this sump - maybe we can sell it for what we paid and go acrylic IAP sump/fuge. Thanks...will get back to you in a day or so. Vicki
 

VickiG

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Making progress on design for 150 with CL

Hi Mike. We took the sump back to LFS for store credit (should be easy to use that up quick enough!). So, going to have a custom sump/fuge built. Only thing that is fairly 'fixed' at this point is the stand dimensions - tank not built yet. Here is a very rough drawing, attached. Exact measurements not known as stand is being built at this time. Hope this helps as far as desiging the closed loop. Now that we are not limited so much by the sump intake/return locations, what are your thoughts on where in the main tank the OF boxes should be and if dual OF/RTN, what sizes do you recommend for our 150? Really excited about your closed loop design. Let me know what other info you may need... still have to get the tank itself designed and ordered, so any ideas on that are welcome too. Thanks again Mike - you are the MAN, buddy!
 

mojoreef

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Vickie on the sump I would push it all the way to one side and make it longer. This would allow for more water, longer length to get rid of bubbles and make it easier to put the skimmer into it. Is thier any reasons you want it so small??

Mike
 

VickiG

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bradreef said:
wow tell us more about the tank.
Hi Brad. Well, hoping to have IAP build it for us - 60"X24"X24", acrylic, rounded corners on the front, coast-to-coast, dual overflows/returns. Mike has designed an awesome closed loop for us and our stand is being custom built by a member of our local club who does beautiful work - it will be oak. So we are really amped about it. This is our first reef tank, so we're trying to go slow, be patient, do it right the first time - as much as we can (knowing full well we'll make some big mistakes along the way and pay the price probably!). It will be bare-bottom, lots of LR, mixed reef with fish, a few softies, some stonies and I want a couple clams. So, we are still in the planning stages but making progress. Thanks for asking!
:)

Vicki
 

VickiG

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mojoreef said:
Vickie on the sump I would push it all the way to one side and make it longer. This would allow for more water, longer length to get rid of bubbles and make it easier to put the skimmer into it. Is thier any reasons you want it so small??

Mike
Well, that is certainly something we've considered. It would then look something like the attached. The reason we were not making it smaller is we're concerned about leaving enough room in the stand for future equipment like calc reactor, etc. But the sump isn't too tall, about 16" probably, so there might be room above that area...I guess people manage to fit all kinds of stuff in their stands and we are having the stand built taller to begin with, so perhaps something more like the attached is a better way to go? More suggestions welcome! Haven't talked to Brian lately to discuss tank, so we still can make design changes as to where holes will be drilled etc. Let me know what you think, Mike (and everyone else too - ideas welcome - experienced hobbyists speak up!)

Thanks!
Vicki
 

VickiG

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Hmmm...hubby pointed out we probably wouldn't be able to fit that sump into the 37" opening in the front of stand, and the stand will sit in a niche with no access to back, so we have to be able to get it out of the stand if it has to be repaired, replaced etc. So, we'll have to work on the sump design some more. Marc may have some ideas for us too. In the meantime, I will call Brian and see what we can get going on the main tank and keep ya posted. Thanks!
 

mojoreef

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Just make it so the door jambs are removable, then the whole thing opens up if a repair is required.


Mike
 

VickiG

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Ordering tank! Stand almost done! Here we go...!

Okay, the tank has been ordered and the stand is almost complete. Will have pictures to post soon. For now, I have a very rough drawing (all I have to use is "Paint" - sorry to all you cad users out there!) Mojo Mike - let me know if this will work with your closed loop design. Or if we need mods! I have told Brian we'd probably have you drill it for the CL. Let me know if that wasn't the plan! Thanks for your patience - this is a slow process because we want to get the best tank we can and try to do it right the first time!
 
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VickiG

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Thanks, Mike. Do you happen to know how much amperage the MBV draws? We only have 20 amp service to the tank outlet wall at this time, and we are trying to decide if we are going to need to hire an electrician! Also, Darrel wanted me to ask if still think the Ampmaster 4700 is the way to go on the CL (or a simlar Sequence pump - he is itching to try an Iwaki somewhere in our system, so wanted your input). Also, I have attached couple pictures of the stand, being built now, so you can see the area we have to work with in fitting the MBV and the pump inside, at the back. Let me know if you need different angles.

Thanks again Mike!!
 
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VickiG

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Ron does great work! Thanks Ed - with YOUR help/advice. Darrel says we will either have a killer tank, or go through total bankruptcy! :eek:
 

mojoreef

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Vickie the MBV take hardly anything for amperage so I wouldnt worry about them. You could use a iwalkie as long as it was close to the gph. The reason I didnt suggest it is that it tends to be a bit noisy. Oh yea get some more plugs in thier.

Stand looks great!!


Mike
 

VickiG

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mojoreef said:
Oh yea get some more plugs in thier.

Stand looks great!!


Mike
Hey Mike - what do you mean by plugs? ...more electrical outlets? Calling the electrician today!
 
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VickiG

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Okay - the tank is coming along nicely and the stand is done. Electrician is coming this week-end. We now need to make some plumbing decisions. Mojo - you listening? We need to know about drain and return sizes. We are thinking 1 1/2" drains X 2 and 1" returns X 2 for the 150? Agree? If not - what would you suggest? Also, how much flow are we talking about with those dimensions? For the return pump - I think you suggested an Ampmaster 4700 or a Seq 5800? Can't recall for sure - maybe that was for the CL. Need to refresh my memory - suggestions? Thanks!
 
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